Anita Sarkeesian discussion

  • Okay, so before the website crashed and had to be rebooted, we had a forum talking about Anita Sarkeesian and her videos, and how frustrating it is to watch them. Here's a wayback link below:

    Anyway, Anita released her last Damsels in Distress video last summer, and ever since then, I felt that she would release more videos about more things she would like to complain about. And I was right. Last month, Anita released a video on the Mrs. Male Character trope and it was yet another load of things for her to complain about and more things to groan over. Now, as the video suggests, the video talks about when a female character is basically a copy-and-paste of a male character.

    Now I have two major complaints about that video. One is every comment she had on Commander Shepard in Mass Effect. I really dislike how she bashed on girl Shepard for no reason at all. And second, Anita gripes about female characters that are copy-and-paste cuts of males. But look at this picture:

    Hypocracy much?

    Anyway, I'm hoping that Soundmonkey44, Renzokuken, and neonwalrus would have something to say on this forum like they did last time around. And I'm hoping that Ninja_Shinigami_Mage and rob1610 would make a comment or two as well.

  • I understand where she's coming from. But she seems to be one of those people that does more harm towards whatever goal she's trying to achieve then good. Not to mention she'd probsbly find a way to spin it where anything is sexist. Basically, like many modern day political/social activists. Even if her heart is in the right place, her approach could use some work. A lot of work actually. XD

  • @Soundmonkey44:

    I understand where she's coming from. But she seems to be one of those people that does more harm towards whatever goal she's trying to achieve then good. Not to mention she'd probsbly find a way to spin it where anything is sexist. Basically, like many modern day political/social activists. Even if her heart is in the right place, her approach could use some work. A lot of work actually. XD

    Pretty much. I've tired of her and a lot of this debate because what I've observed from her and responses to her videos is that it comes down to looking at things differently. It does depend on how you spin it sometimes. That's not to say that there isn't a problem, just that I think there's some wiggle room for people to see the same thing in a different light. Maybe she could have a debate video where she brings a guest on who disagrees with some of her points and they can discuss why they see things differently.

  • You know, Soundmonkey, I'd safely say that Anita is more or less the next Jack Thompson. Here's an article about why we don't think it's a good idea to take her seriously:


    Maybe [Anita] could have a debate video where she brings a guest on who disagrees with some of her points and they can discuss why they see things differently.

    That's a brilliant idea! That way there could be an actual debate and not some complain-fest. And she could actually do something productive for once! And it would be more entertaining as well. And I have a good idea for who gets to be her opponent in the debate: Thunderf00t. Now, if you don't know who he is, he made my personal favorite Tropes Vs. Women response video: Feminism Vs. Facts. And to be honest, I didn't watch Anita's video until sometime after watching Feminism Vs. Facts. Here's the video. Enjoy.

    By the way, thank you, Soundmonkey, for this great video. I have enjoyed it all year. And I have also liked the part 3 video:

    Anyway, I would like to say something about an opening comment for last site's video. The one that you, Soundmonkey, said when you opened it up:


    Personally I think she makes a few good points I agree Krystal got jipped by never getting her own game But theres A LOT of bias here thats kind of annoying, again I get what she's saying and I agree to a point but I feel the poster is going about her argument in a somewhat sexist manner herself later in the video.

    I agree. When Antia said in her Damsels in Distress Part 2 video that "the true source of [the heros'] pain stems from feelings of weakness and/or guilt over his failure to perform his socially perscribed patriarchal duty to protect his women and children," I thought, "Now, does that sound misandric to anyone besides me?" I mean, at one point, my Dad and I were talking about it and Dad said, "If a story about a man protecting his wife and children is misogynistic, then a story about a woman protecting her children is ageist against children." Anita's sexism is pointed out in some of the response videos I've been seeing. Honestly, listening to her gives me a headache. I'd love to post more response videos, but I tried it and it caused problems. But, regardless, let's analyze the debate from as many angles as possible.

  • Well, I guess it was inevitable that Sarkeesian would eventually get her own thread here, and not much has changed including my opinion of her, although it has evolved.

    First, I’ll do a little review and sum up; to me, it’s people like her, people who choose to see any form of discrimination, or in this case, sexism as a one sided equation. In doing so, such people prove themselves to be as misandristic as they are ignorant and have no right or entitlement to my respect.

    Everything word they speak is suspect, every statement as transparent as their biased ideology; to me, Anita Sarkeesian and people like her with their extreme liberalism/borderline Marxist, hyper politically correct, hipster mentalities embody and are precisely everything that is wrong with modern geek/pop culture.

    After all; it’s always easier to rip creative work apart, complain and do so in the name of a faux pas ideological thought process than it is to go out and create something; after all, that would require hard work, determination and due diligence. Oh, and it doesn’t pay as much nearly as often especially when someone can play the damsel and collect almost $160000; that’s a lot of money.

    I could write pages upon pages about many of the fallacies Sarkeesian and others who share similar belief patterns along with the negative impact it has had on various communities including the anime community. However, I don’t want to write too much, I just wanted to summarize some of my thoughts on this issue; I’m tired right now, perhaps over time I may add a little here and there.

    I will say a little more though; I find it ironic, downright hilarious that Sarkeesian has referred to, and described primarily the male members in the gaming community as “entitled” and “spoiled” when she and people just like her come barging into something that has existed for quite some time that none of them helped create and demand everything change on their account. Let’s be honest here, the only reason that this is happening is because in this day and age it is socially acceptable for people to play video games as opposed to 15, 10 or even 5 years ago when people who played video games were seen as nerds in the negative sense; I’m talking:

    I was also listening to an interview on a radio show with some female MRA’s speaking on this subject and I can post the entire video upon request if everyone wishes me to do so. One topic that came up was that one of them had always played video games, but her gender was never an issue, she called herself a “gamer” not a “girl gamer” and they made a great point about feminists like Sarkeesian; these people say gender shouldn’t matter, yet they’re the ones making the bigger deal out of it.

    I can say more, but I think I’ll let these videos do the talking.

    Very interesting…………..

    I can share more videos at another time.

  • This post is deleted!

  • I watched this video for the Mrs. Male Character trope
    and at one point, there was a link to a petition for getting Antia Sarkeesian to finally knock it off. So, I highly encourage a lot of you to just sign up and join the revolution. If any of you are ready to make Anita leave the Feminism to real feminists, then it's time to fight back. Sign up and get ready to roll.

  • @iamshodan:

    I watched this video for the Mrs. Male Character trope
    and at one point, there was a link to a petition for getting Antia Sarkeesian to finally knock it off. So, I highly encourage a lot of you to just sign up and join the revolution. If any of you are ready to make Anita leave the Feminism to real feminists, then it's time to fight back. Sign up and get ready to roll.

    You know, I disagree with Sarkeesian and most other feminists, like almost all of them, it's safe to say I'm quite anti-feminist with much of what I say and present. I find the very core of it to be quite misandristic and demeaning to women in the sense that it removes their agency by putting the responsibility and blame for everything on men and this "patriarchy" I keep hearing about not to mention seeing sexism as a one way path that keeps women in a state of perpetual victim hood. My research and experience shows both men and women as perpetrators and victims; in other words; doing great good or evil is a human trait; not a gender specific trait; the sooner we understand that the better off we'll all be.

    As I said before, while I can express my disapproval for feminism by writing page after page of everything I feel is wrong with the ideology, I will not partake in anything that will take away their right to their freedom of speech. After all I can always exercise mine by being able to express my disagreement.

  • Well, this poll isn't really to silence Anita Sarkeesian so much as it is to get her to accept any and all legitimate, civilized criticism. This poll isn't made to take away her right to freedom of speech. so much as it is to get her not to take away ours.

    And I think that simply ignoring Anita isn't going to solve the problem. She's just going to work her way into the system and manipulate the industry to her will. I don't think she should be ignored like that. I mean, we ignored Jack Thompson and he only got stronger because if it. He got disbarred because we took action. Just watch this video:

  • I agree that ignoring her isn't really an option. She's caught people's attention already and has enough followers to have at least some kind of influence. But people need to be careful in how they approach things. Lashing out and making rude remarks and threats just got her more attention. If people put more energy into civil complaints and arguments then things will turn out much better.

    That video where she says that she's "not a fan of video games and had to learn a lot about them" to make that music video (the one mentioned in the beginning of the last video neon posted titled "Anita and the White Knights") kind of goes way against what she says about loving games when it came to her Kickstarter. I've watched the other videos uploaded by the person who posted that original B&W video of Anita saying she doesn't like games, and they raise some interesting points, particularly in how her social media made practically 0 mention of video games at all before her Kickstarter campaign and how she started with a conclusion and then started seeking evidence to support it. Not using her own footage isn't doing her any favors either. It would be much better if she used her own footage because it would prove she's actually played the games she talks about and might help her in the case of people doubting her honesty when it comes to her liking video games as a result.

  • Good fucking Christ! Here too? Well, people here have given my opinion. This is why I'll NEVER use or donate to KickStarter, e-begging is risky and pathetic. I hate talking about feminism despite the fact that I support it. It's still a massive pill to swallow. It's almost 2014 and women are sill aren't being treated equally! Sure it's an improvement but it's still not enough! 25% of women are sexually assaulted; that's a disgusting number! It's more the media that needs to be changed and balance things out as the pen is mightier than the sword.

  • Don't drink the poison Kool-Aid.

  • I remember a time when video games were just video games they did not have to have any underlying message

  • Screw underlying messages. Let's just pick up and play.

    Hm… then again, the underlying messages of Bioshock were wonderful. They informed just how horrible extremist capitalism and communism were and did so flawlessly. So, if a game were to send an underlying message, I want them to be ones that are made to enhance the world.

  • I don't really remember there being any underlying messages in Infinite. Most of it was like, Infinite would have some kind of underlying message, and then it would be so proud of it that it would show it to you again and again and constantly ask if you saw that cool underlying message they put in

  • I've never played Infinite, so I have no way of knowing what kinds of messages that game would have.

  • All, right, we, as a general consensus believe that Anita “Feminist Frequency” Sarkeesian is just being a whiner wanting the gaming industry re-worked to favor her own personal ideas on how to portray women… which she is still not truly explaining to us. Every time I watch her videos, I can't help but think, “Why am I watching this?” She takes a lot of things that aren't truly trying to be sexist and calls them sexist for some pretty ridiculous reasons, such as the Mario and Zelda franchises. Yes, we do want Peach and Zelda in more active roles, but other than that, their portrayals were quite respectful. However, I would like to point out that she does sometimes point out games that really are sexist. For example, she at one point in her Damsels In Distress Part 2 video flog Duke Nukem Forever for its blatant misogyny, and personally, I agree. Duke Nukem Forever, the steaming pile of pixels that should have remained in development hell for eternity, is absolutely sexist. But the thing is, I could have figured this out without watching Anita's lecture videos. Anyone with an actually functioning brain can figure out how disgustingly sexist it is. Heck, Adam Sessler of X-play lashed out at its misogynistic portrayals of women in his review of the game. You see, Anita? People like Adam Sessler are much smarter than you think they are. And since the main character, Duke, is portrayed as a horny, tough guy who's just looking to blow up aliens and get laid, I'd say that the game is sexist against men too.

    So, I find Duke Nukem Forever to be a blatant example of something that objectifies women. This leads us to a very important topic: objectification. Here's a very important question: what is objectification? Well, people define it as “treating a character as an object and not a person.” Now, one question on this subject that we keep on asking is “Does dressing up a female character in sexy, revealing clothing automatically objectify her?” My answer to that is “no.” And here's why: I watched some videos from Youtube channel Extra Credits and in multiple videos, they make the following statement: “Actions define a character.” Even if a female character does look desirable, and/or act like a temptress, she can still have good characterization, a relatable backstory, good chemistry with other characters, a great personality, a reasonable amount of depth, and other reasons to make her someone we can actually care about and not just drool over. Yes, we don't really like female characters that are eye-candy first, character second, but those kinds of characters, thankfully, tend to be forgotten. If your sexy woman character is written to have little-to-no personality and/or have little-to-no relevance to the story, or if you just make her a reward for the male, then that is how you objectify her. So, I consider objectification to have more to do with portrayal and characterization. And another thing that objectifies some female characters in some games or anime is if the sex appeal is presented in an exploitative manner. A while back, Soundmonkey44 make an “Is Anime Sexist” forum and I wanted to post onto there that I personally do not find anime itself sexist. I know of several anime that treat their female characters pretty well, even if some of those characters are sexualized.. There is, however, a specific type of anime that I find sexist: echi. Shows like Ikki Tousen, Queen's Blade, We Without Wings, and High School DXD are so exploitative with their sex-appeal that they are not only misogynistic, they are also painful to watch. Because of this, they tend to get left behind in the dust and it's all the better for it.

    But, I would like to mention Samurai 7 for a quick moment. I'm not sure if I should call it sexist or not, but part of me does tent to lean more towards the “yes” column. You see, Kirara, the water priestess who finds and recruits the samurai, is more or less a weak and dependent female character. I do find her be one of the less annoying examples of this, one of the more tolerable examples, (compared to Bella Swan at least) but I still find it irksome. To be fair, Rikichi was just as useless, at least until episode 16, but seeing Kirara constantly end up in danger and have to rely on the samurai to rescue her kind of gave me the impression that anime tended to portray its women as weak, submissive, and unable to take care of themselves, even though at the time I first watched Samurai 7, I was playing Baten Kaitos: Eternal Wings and the Lost Ocean, which did have some strong women in them. Plus, there were cartoons and movies I watched and video games I played that did have some strong women in them. Including the first two Metroid Prime games. Still, seeing Kirara as incredibly weak and helpless bothered me. And I got the feeling that she was basically just there for eye candy. I mean, the creators intended otherwise, considering that she helped recruit the samurai, helped them find paths to her village, and helps to heal their wounds, but I would have seen it more easily if her shirt didn't show off her tummy. In my opinion, exposed midriffs look better on kick-ass women anyway. And it's not just Kirara that was weak; all the women in Samurai 7 were non-combatant. Every single warrior in the show was male. I could say that it's a personal problem I have with the show, but there's a reason some Samurai 7 fan fictions sometimes include a female fighter or two.

    Seeing Kirara be weak and dependent made me appreciate seeing strong women in the media a lot more, and after seeing it on IFC, if made me want to see strong women in the anime medium some more. When I looked at Funimation's iTunes account and saw that the animation team behind the Samurai 7, Studio Gonzo, made another anime called Burst Angel. And that show featured women who spent the whole show killing bad guys and blowing things up. I do wish they toned down on the fan service, but I thought it was refreshing to see an anime where the women actually fight. Then, I learned of another anime series called Claymore which had a ton of strong women in it. There were only two male warriors in that show and they were only in two episodes. Every other warrior in Claymore was female. And after seeing Samurai 7, I felt that Claymore was a breath of fresh air as 99% of the women in that show were total badasses. But, unfortunately, it seemed to have come at a price of having a weak, dependent, and useless male character. Raki has been hated on for being weak and useless. And while some may argue that useless tag-along male characters don't enforce harmful gender-based stereotypes, well, that doesn't really change anything. Weak, useless characters are still annoying. At least Raki becomes badass and powerful. In the manga!! And his staying useless in the anime is purely due to how rushed the ending was. I love seeing strong women. But it shouldn't come at the cost of weak men.

    Then there's Fairy Tail which, from where I stand, truly supports gender equality. There, just about anyone, male or female, gets to be a total badass. The titular guild comprising of our heroes is pretty much a balanced mix between the two genders, all treated equally, and when there's trouble, all of them just get out there and fight. Even Lucy has some cool moments. And with the exception of the all-female Mermaid Heel, the other guilds let just about anyone of either gender join. Even the Dark Guilds put their women on the same page as the men. Hiro Mashima did sexualize his female characters, but he didn't let their sexy looks serve as a poor substitute for personality, depth, and emotion. He really made sure they had more than just “sexy” going for them. And besides, who's to say that he didn't sexualize Grey or Natsu? And on top of that, the series also features Erza Scarlet, my all-time favorite anime woman and one of the most badass women in anime history. It's funny how both she and the aforementioned Kirara are both voiced by Colleen Clinkenbeard; one is weak and dependent, always having to be rescued, and the other is strong and independent, always doing the rescuing. Actually, Erza had to be rescued a few times, but that was due to her reaching her limit or getting hit with a surprise attack. Not the same thing. And after she gets rescued, Erza then goes back to doing what she does best: fighting and kicking ass. After all, you gotta respect a woman who can take down a hundred monsters all by herself!!!! How is that not awesome?

  • Anyway, back to video games: the only other example of a video game objectifying women that I can think up at the top of my head is Dead or Alive Extreme Beach Volleyball, and I hope I don't need to go into detail as to why I listed it as such. At one point, people accused Team Ninja of degrading women in the game and Yoshinouri Uweda had this to say:


    From our perspective, we're trying to make beautiful women, that has been the focus - we want our characters to be beautiful. The DOA characters are strong and that they look the way they do is based on trying to bring out the beauty of women. We're certainly not trying to degrade women. They have beautiful bodies. We're trying to show off the beauty of their bodies but we're not trying to be degrading about it - we're trying to show that they are beautiful characters.

    As far as I am concerned, Uweda is talking out of his ass. And a game that I definitely consider sexist is Metroid Other M, which I find not only sexist, it's insulting in every way imaginable. It took long time Metroid heroine Samus Aran, who has always been a strong, brave, well respectable heroine, and made her into a mopy, co-dependent lame-o. That's a bad portrayal of women to begin with, but the real kick in the morph balls is how it completely goes against everything about Samus that has been established in every other game in the franchise. Misogyny plus character derailment equals absolute insult to humanity, and her portrayal alone was enough to make Other M a gigantic wad of suckage! Because of this, so many people lashed out at Yoshio Sakamoto for the game. After looking at Metroid Other M's Elephant In The Room article, Yoshio Sakamoto said this in and article:


    Depicting the story of Samus Aran in this game was one of the most important game design concepts from the very beginning because before Other M I did not think about what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality….Plus because of the existence of the Metroid Prime series many people might have different ideas about what kind of person Samus Aran was….So with Other M I really wanted to determine and express what kind of human Samus Aran is so that we can really tell what kind of natural step she should be taking in the future. - See more at:

    This quote gave me this theory as to why he portrayed Samus the way he did though: he didn't work on the Metroid Prime games and so when he found out that three Metroid games that he had no involvement in whatsoever became smashing successes, he got angry. He hated the Metroid fanbase for choosing Metroid Prime 1-3 over the games that he worked on, so he portrayed Samus the way he did as a way of backlashing against the fanbase. I hope one of you knows his e-mail address because I have a nasty e-mail I want to send to him:


    What the hell were you thinking!? Your portrayal of Samus Aran in Metroid Other M was inexcusable! It was unforgivable! It was unacceptable! Your portrayal of Samus Aran is nothing but a giant middle finger to Metroid fans! You took one of the most beloved and well-respected heroines in all of gaming and turned her into an incompetent, whiny, weak, and unlikable git with battered housewife syndrome! It's like you were not really the creator himself, but rather some idiotic, obnoxious fan-fic writer who undermines his characters and portrays them in a way that any sane person would reject and want to punch you in the face for. If this is your envisionment of Samus Aran, then there is obviously something wrong with you! If this is your envisionment of Samus Aran, then your envisionment is obviously one of the worst envisionments for a previously well-established character ever. If this is your envisionment of Samus Aran, then you should be fired. If this is your envisionment of Samus Aran, then you need some serious therapy. If this is your envisionment of Samus Aran, then the fans have envisioned her infinitely better than you did. You see, ever since the original Metroid was released, we have envisioned Samus Aran as a brave, independent, confident, tough-as-nails bounty hunter who took down enemy after enemy without hesitation or anything to hold her back. Then Other M came along and took our envisionment of Samus Aran and completely tarnished it beyond repair and we felt like we were kicked in the 'nads all throughout the game! You made Samus weak, pathetic, incompetent, indecisive, and codependent and that is how nobody, nobody has envisioned her all these years. Why didn't you portray Samus in the way we envisioned!? WHY DON'T YOU LOVE US, SAKAMOTO!?!?

    I want you to take a look at a little article on the internet talking about how you established the relationship between Samus Aran and Adam Malkovich. To put a long story short, you wrote it as an abusive relationship that you glorified. You had Adam be such an abusive punk towards Samus Aran and you glorified it, while making Samus Aran just be some submissive yes-woman just doing everything that Adam said and you had heroic music accompany him and had sad music play during his sacrifice. And you had Samus do almost nothing important while she did almost everything important in the rest of the franchise. And don't give me that crap about you making Samus more human in Other M than she was in the Prime games. From where I stand, she was more human in the Prime games than she was in Other M.

    Not only that, you yourself portrayed Samus in other games and the Metroid manga in better ways. The manga wasn't pulitzer prize material, but the way you portrayed Samus in it was a lot better than the one you have her in Other M. You had Samus grow and learn things. You made her struggles feel more believable and understandable. And you also portrayed her well in the games you made before Metroid Other Mess came along. You treated her well in Super Metroid, Fusion, and Zero Mission. So not only did you betray us with your horrendous portrayal of Samus in Other M, you also betrayed yourself.

    You should be ashamed of yourself. Just as we are ashamed of you. You should be mad at yourself. Just as we are mad at you. You should hate yourself. Just as we hate you. I want you to mend the wounds of the fans first by putting the Prime trilogy back into the Metroid timeline and removing Other M from it, meaning that the Prime games are canon and Other M isn't, (the way it should be, mind you) and then by making a choice: either leave Nintendo so that you could never tarnish Samus Aran any further, or you can make a re-written version of Other M that portrays Samus in the way we envisioned. Portrays Samus as a headstrong, confident, independent, uber-powerful one-woman army that tears Space Pirates apart and lays waste to anything that would threaten the galaxy. That's what we've pictured her to be like and that's what you should have pictured her to be like. If you always envisioned Samus as a bratty, codependent lapdog, you don't belong on Nintendo's development team. You should be fired and replaced with someone who envisions Samus the way we do. Who envisions Samus the way the original Metroid portrays her. Who envisions Samus the way Super Metroid portrays her. Who envisions Samus the way the Prime games portray her. Who envisions Samus the way the Metroid Prime 2 manga portrays her. Who envisions Samus the way she was meant to be envisioned.

    And you want to know what else, I hate? I hate hearing people use a bunch of silly excuses to defend Other M's portrayal of Samus like “It was made in Japan” or “She has emotions in this game” or “he's the one who made it, so deal with it” or any of that crap. I do not think that Metroid Other M gets too much hate. I think it deserves every ounce of hatred that it gets.

  • But, I think that the majority of video games treat their women pretty well. The Tales games have their female characters be equal to the male ones and portray them, even the sexualized ones, quite respectfully, and made them incredibly believable and they did that with the men too. Tales of Vesperia in particular, at one point, subtly expressed that there's nothing wrong with thinking a woman is sexy, just treat her as a human being. Protagonist Yuri Lowell does find it hard not to get aroused when Judith is nearby but he respects her as either his equal or someone who could surpass him. And sees her as both a friend and a combat ally. Most Final Fantasy games are good at respectably portraying their heroines, and while Princess Zelda ends up being a damsel in distress a lot of the time, she does everything she can to help Link out every chance she gets and that's why a lot of us respect her. And say what you will about Rouge the Bat from the Sonic series, but I actually thought she was cool and brave and independent, and thus doesn't deserve nearly as much hate as she gets. And Blaze the Cat was incredibly awesome, and while any bashing on Amy Rose is valid, I'll say that she does have some redeeming value. Like Ninja_Shinigami_Mage said on the Sonic the Hedgehog forum, Sonic Lost World brought back her caring nature and motherly wisdom from the Adventure games, particularly the first one, and her Piko Piko Hammer makes her a force to be reckoned with, especially in the Sonic games where she's a playable character. The only two female Sonic characters that aren't treated well are Elise and Marine the Raccoon, but did either of them show up in more than one Sonic game? Plus, there are just as badly mistreated male Sonic characters like Big the Cat. Bottom line: while some sexist portrayals of women do exist out there, there is actually much less of it than some people like Anita make it sound like. Yes, there is definitely room for improvement, but we should also appreciate the improvements that have been made already.

  • @Firefly:

    I agree that ignoring her isn't really an option. She's caught people's attention already and has enough followers to have at least some kind of influence. But people need to be careful in how they approach things. Lashing out and making rude remarks and threats just got her more attention. If people put more energy into civil complaints and arguments then things will turn out much better.

    And that's what this petition is devoted to. It's called "Acknowledge and Present Legitimate Criticism of Anita Sarkeesian" and it's trying to get legit criticism on Anita out and get news sources to do it. Now, sign up aind join the revolution!

  • I think it's sad so many people abuse sociopolitical views to push their own agendas. Feminism is about creating equality between men & women, not some stupid battle of the sexes!

    Anita it seems is a Radical Feminist, and as we all know, radical anything is NOT good!

    Personally I think the EcoFeminist & Liberal Feminist (which is actually quite moderate despite its name) movements are much better and more well rounded. Radical Feminists all to easily turn into shamers & bullies.