I hate being right…



  • Another convention weekend with no news about the lost Otakon 2014 titles, no new announcements, no anything. I called it.

    I wonder what it's like to be wrong about this stuff? Even just a little wrong?



  • You know Doug, I keep hearing you whine about the Otakon 2014 shows, but yet you're strangely silent about the Sunrise titles announced during Otakon 2013.

    I would think you'd be more upset about those shows, seeing as how it's been almost three years and so far, only Cowboy Bebop has been released, and Escaflowne is on its way for later this year. But the one update we did get this weekend was regarding Outlaw Star, to which they were very open and stated that they were still waiting on materials.

    In fact, that's the reason we haven't seen ANY shows from Sunrise pop up: Everyone's still waiting on materials. Now, before you say "Nuh-uh! Funi's obviously just sitting on them", may I remind you that at that very same convention, Sentai Filmworks also announced a lot of Sunrise rescues as well, and they haven't released a single one of them either. In fact, they're actually doing worse than Funi is right now, as Funi was at least able to get Bebop out on shelves. But I don't see you jumping up and down angrily blaming them for anything, now do I, Doug?

    So if it's taking this long for Funi to get materials from Sunrise, wouldn't it stand to reason that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the same thing is going on with Kadokawa? We already know from past dealings that Kadokawa can be VERY difficult to work with anyways, going so far as to give them broadcast masters instead of home video masters, forcing them to release certain titles as DVD-only, making them sit through long delays just to release them, etc. So honestly it wouldn't be a stretch at all to say that the reason those shows aren't available right now is because Kadokawa won't let them put them out just yet.

    Now before you say "Well if that's the case, then Funimation should just come out and say it!!"…. No they shouldn't. The very, VERY last thing Funi should ever do is cast their supplier in ANY sort of negative light. They are in a precarious position where they have to walk on the tiniest of eggshells, bend over backgrounds, and cater to each and every one of Kadokawa's whims if they want to continue doing business with them in the future. The anime companies have shown in the past that even the slightest mistake can cause them to completely pack up and leave, taking their toys with them. And with the brand new Steins;Gate sequel coming out later this year, we certainly wouldn't want THAT, now would we?

    But of course, you're not going to listen to or acknowledge a single thing I say, are you Doug? Nope, I'm just a "white knight" of the forums, trying to sweep everything under the rug to appease my dark lord and masters at Funimation. It's not like I've been a fan of anime for years now who has done thorough research on the medium and has learned many of the ins-&-outs on what makes the industry tick. NOPE. Obviously I'm just talking out my butt here.

    So yes, Doug. You're right. Funimation is purposefully choosing to sit on several of their most lucrative properties instead of making them available and pulling in tons of profit. They're doing this ENTIRELY of their own choosing and not because of any sort of restrictions that may or may not have been placed on them. Because as we all know the Japanese production companies are completely totally blameless and without fault. ALL HAIL GLORIOUS NIPPON ANIMU MASTER RACE, am I right?



  • Spaceman, don't you think it's odd that somehow at the two Top 10 most attended anime conventions, we get no new annoucements on anything???

    No Gonna Be the Twin-Tail dub cast….no news on the remaining Summer 2014 simulcasts, no news on Fall 2014. Also it's less than a week before Spring 2016 season begins and all we know about is MHA.... leaks seem to indicate that maybe Funi got Ace Attorney or maybe not.



  • It's the same thing as to why NONE of the US Companies got Yamato: 2199, as Voyager wanted too much control, too much cash or both. Then Voyager decided to try and release it themselves and totally blew it.



  • Standing ovation for Spaceman.

    Really people, just… be patient. Not everything has to be a conspiracy. Not everything is a case of someone victimizing you.
    Just. Wait. And trust the people who make this stuff in the first place.
    They really could just pack up their toys and leave. They would be perfectly within their rights to do that. The fact that you're used to the internet, and you're used to stomping your feet and saying "I want it NOW" and having someone actually give it to you, doesn't change that.



  • @AbZeroNow:

    No Gonna Be the Twin-Tail dub cast….no news on the remaining Summer 2014 simulcasts, no news on Fall 2014. Also it's less than a week before Spring 2016 season begins and all we know about is MHA.... leaks seem to indicate that maybe Funi got Ace Attorney or maybe not.

    They normally announce dub casts in the News section on this site, and they normally announce release dates for home releases in the Shop or on Youtube. Frankly they don't really use conventions for brand new announcements at all these days, just dub premieres - probably because they're going to like two per week

    For Spring 2016, it is kind of weird, but the last couple of seasons they've pretty much dumped their whole season in one go, rather than the few per day that Crunchyroll and Sentai do. So I wouldn't be surprised to see a whole mess of them announced on the 31st or April Fools'



  • See the thing is, Spaceman, reading stuff on the internet and doing your own little podcast thing, and being a moderator on a forum doesn't make you "in the know" and it doesn't make you a credible source of information. you THINK you know about this stuff, but you don't KNOW a damn thing.

    Contracts don't get signed, and licenses don't get acquired without language pertaining to release of said acquisition for profit opportunity. Nobody would ever license a product without that language. Nobody would spend money on a license they can't utilize in a time frame they find to be reasonable (regardless if you or I the consumer find that to be a reasonable time frame), because that would be throwing away money.

    MAYBE Kadokawa has a deadline of three years to deliver materials? MAYBE it's already been delivered and now the release has to be approved and THAT has a deadline? Or MAYBE both of those are wrong, and Funimation is free to release the goods whenever in the hell they feel like it because either those previous two conditions aren't conditions, or they have already been fulfilled.

    two things are 100% certain, spaceman… YOU do NOT work for Funimation, and you do NOT know.



  • @Riles:

    They normally announce dub casts in the News section on this site, and they normally announce release dates for home releases in the Shop or on Youtube. Frankly they don't really use conventions for brand new announcements at all these days, just dub premieres - probably because they're going to like two per week

    For Spring 2016, it is kind of weird, but the last couple of seasons they've pretty much dumped their whole season in one go, rather than the few per day that Crunchyroll and Sentai do. So I wouldn't be surprised to see a whole mess of them announced on the 31st or April Fools'

    I've been going to Anime Boston since 2011. It probably got an attendance close to 30,000 people this year. Sakura-con gets over 25,000. Between those two conventions, there has always been at least one new annoucement. AB has been very good to FUNimation over the years, and every year except for this one there was ALWAYS been an annoucement of some sort. Yes, it's good that FUNimation told us that they are still waiting for Outlaw Star materials because Sunrise is being as slow as a glacier(to which I do not fault FUNimation in the slightest).

    I think those Otakon 2014 titles are gonna start coming in Q4 this year. They got Girl Who Leapt Through Time from Kadokawa(from what I understand). I think we just have to be a little more patient on this front as Funi continues to deal with the fallout from their massive mistake of soliciting Strike Witches 2 and Heaven's Lost Property Forte to come out one month after Kadokawa previously announced BD-Boxes for those.



  • @dougswisher:

    two things are 100% certain, spaceman… YOU do NOT work for Funimation, and you do NOT know.

    Neither do you, Doug. Neither do you. -_-



  • @dougswisher:

    See the thing is, Spaceman, reading stuff on the internet and doing your own little podcast thing, and being a moderator on a forum doesn't make you "in the know" and it doesn't make you a credible source of information. you THINK you know about this stuff, but you don't KNOW a damn thing.

    This is a weird thing to say considering what you write literally one paragraph later

    @dougswisher:

    Contracts don't get signed, and licenses don't get acquired without language pertaining to release of said acquisition for profit opportunity. Nobody would ever license a product without that language. Nobody would spend money on a license they can't utilize in a time frame they find to be reasonable (regardless if you or I the consumer find that to be a reasonable time frame), because that would be throwing away money.

    Who's throwing away money? Licenses typically have an up-front fee, or a shared revenue fee, or a combination of both, but neither of those things happen until masters are delivered. Moreover, it's not like there's a direct competitor who's beaten Funimation/Kadokawa to the punch by releasing Steins;Gate before them. Where's the loss of revenue here? Are you implying they will sell less because it released three years later than expected? That's nothing more than guesswork, and it's ridiculous for you to pass it off as fact

    I can't believe I have to say this, but I promise you, there's nothing more Funimation would like to do than sell you their product as quickly as possible. I feel like that's an obvious statement, but in case it still doesn't make sense to you, all you have to look at is broadcast dubs to see that they don't want to waste any time getting their product out the door. It's incredibly silly for you to think this is all on Funimation, or that they can tell you what's going on behind the curtain. Can you think of a single situation where it's okay to throw the licensor under the bus? Can you think of a situation where it's acceptable to tell your consumer that the companies who provide your livelihood are dragging their feet?

    Alternatively, Kadokawa has their own concerns as well, even if they aren't necessarily grounded in reality. As far as I can tell (and of course, I'm not an expert on Japanese business and internal politics, before you accuse me of saying I am), they're in a constant struggle of trying to outsource their work versus preventing reverse importation cutting into their own sales. It's something that the Western audience and every licensing studio has dealt with for years now though Kadokawa, and that's just how it is until Kadokawa can sort things out internally

    @AbZeroNow:

    AB has been very good to FUNimation over the years, and every year except for this one there was ALWAYS been an annoucement of some sort.

    I think it's just conventions in general, not just AB. I'm struggling to think of any exclusive announcements that were made at any Funimation panel since, well, Anime Boston 2015



  • Here's an interesting article I found on the economy of anime. It's pretty good.

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-05



  • @SpacemanHardy:

    LoL, I didn't realize this before, alas I noticed that the frog has a product placement for Lipton Tea in that shot. "Shameful, is what it is…"

    ...in either case, the case you made was sound. The OP of this thread, I believe, needs to spend some time in Japan; that will "school" him as of sorts.



  • It sounds like to me doug wants to advocate for Funimation (and probably Sentai and Viz) should have their contracts available for their subbers to read, which I would totally get behind if they were to even entertain the idea. At least that way we would have a better understanding of how the business goes. Heck even if it was just a one-pager with details of when they can release licensing fee, stuff like that.

    But I can understand why they may not want to do this. And since Funimation isn't publicly traded I doubt we'll even be able to get something close to this.

    But if CJ or Sophie were to front the idea to their overlords that'd be cool too.



  • @Riles:

    I can't believe I have to say this, but I promise you, there's nothing more Funimation would like to do than sell you their product as quickly as possible.

    This.

    This just sums up the real issue here.

    Do you (OP) even stop to think, for a second, about what incentive someone might have of doing whatever it is you're accusing them of, before you make an accusation?

    Because you should.

    A lot of people nowadays seem to think the whole world is full of bullies who just want to bully them for no reason other than… what? Spite?
    Don't be that person. Take a second to think about what someone else might want.
    FUNimation has no incentive to do things any slower than they can possibly help it.

    Also, if you really think that they can get that sort of language into contracts for anime and really have it followed absolutely... you're missing that things really don't run that smoothly in anime. Whoever's in charge of finding the materials that need to get to FUNi (because they're not always organized so neatly) probably has higher priorities than the second US release of a show from 10 years ago, too. Just because it seems like the most important thing to you...
    (And me, for the second most important show from 2013, after Cowboy Bebob. I'm saying second most important because it was the only thing besides Bebop to get its own slide in the presentation.)



  • @dougswisher:

    Contracts don't get signed, and licenses don't get acquired without language pertaining to release of said acquisition for profit opportunity. Nobody would ever license a product without that language. Nobody would spend money on a license they can't utilize in a time frame they find to be reasonable (regardless if you or I the consumer find that to be a reasonable time frame), because that would be throwing away money.

    Exactly how many anime license contracts have you been privy to the terms of?

    This isn't a commodity product being dealt with here. If the publisher doesn't want to offer the terms Funimation would prefer, it isn't as if they can go to someone else for the same product on better terms. If the publisher wanted to say (in nice legalese), "We'll deliver the materials if and when we find the time to do so", Funimation's only realistic choice is to accept it or pass on the deal. It isn't as if they could realistically threaten to refuse to license any other properties from that publisher if they didn't offer better terms.

    It seems quite hypocritical for you to harp on what someone "doesn't know", while you continue to blame Funimation for the delays in these titles. Not only do you "not know", but your evidence for that assertion is far weaker than for the problem being on the supplier end. You've never addressed why if Funimation were to blame for the delay, why does Sentai have exactly the same issue with the Sunrise titles they licensed? (I've brought up this before, and SH brought it up again now, and each time you've ignored addressing that little issue).



  • @SpacemanHardy:

    Neither do you, Doug. Neither do you. -_-

    Never said I do. Actually, since you seem to have misunderstood the point of my commentary over the last few months, let me simplify what I have been saying; I want answers, and I want them from someone who can actually speak about the issue officially.

    (AKA, Funimation)

    @Riles:

    That's nothing more than guesswork, and it's ridiculous for you to pass it off as fact

    Sure, it's guesswork, based heavily on common acquisition contracts.

    Be it a license, product, or service, a basic part of a supplier/reseller agreement is language pertaining to the distribution (sale) of the product/license acquired (or service being rendered). That is fact, regardless of who we are talking about. I simply brought it up to counter the silly idea that Funimation signed a contract that would allow the supplier (licensor in this case) to deliver (and/or approve) product "whenever they get around to it" and would prohibit Funimation from distributing said product until some arbitrarily non-agreed upon time in the future "whenever the licensor feels like it."

    That simply would not happen. Can I 100% prove that? Of course not, but I have seen enough similar contracts in my life to say confidently that most, if not all acquisition contracts will have deadlines for delivery in their language, as well as delivery allowance expiration dates. I suppose in some contracts there may be rights to distribution that don't expire, but that would certainly not be in the supplier's favor.

    @Riles:

    there's nothing more Funimation would like to do than sell you their product as quickly as possible.

    I don't believe that, I believe what they want is to shove a whole bunch of broadcast dubs at us and run telethons kickstarter campaigns to generate revenue for a potentially expanding theatrical market, and they want to sit on their 100% guaranteed money makers until they have a financial necessity to release them.

    You can't authoritatively tell me I am wrong, because you have no more facts than I do.

    @Riles:

    Can you think of a single situation where it's okay to throw the licensor under the bus? Can you think of a situation where it's acceptable to tell your consumer that the companies who provide your livelihood are dragging their feet?

    Giving us answers isn't throwing anyone under the bus, except for maybe the person(s) at Funimation holding back on the release of these titles. Again, I don't believe for a minute that this is on the licensors.

    Also, it isn't the licensors that are providing their livelihood. It's us, the customers. Do you even realize how silly you come off as with that statement? The licensors aren't allowing Funimation the honor or allowing us to spend money on their product. This is business we are talking about here. We, the customers allow Funimation to take our money in exchange for goods/services. Funimation allows the licensors to take their money in exchange for goods.

    The moment you convince yourself that a supplier, in any industry is a needless, benevolent entity, is the moment you fail at economics and business. That is not how the world works.

    @Riles:

    Alternatively, Kadokawa has their own concerns as well, even if they aren't necessarily grounded in reality. As far as I can tell (and of course, I'm not an expert on Japanese business and internal politics, before you accuse me of saying I am), they're in a constant struggle of trying to outsource their work versus preventing reverse importation cutting into their own sales.

    That would be a decent theory if we were talking about recent releases, but all of the missing Otakon 2014 (and for that matter those missing from Otakon 2013) titles were released and run their course in Japan… years ago.

    Sure, I'd love to have the missing Otakon 2014 titles released now. Even though the rescues, which are done and only need a new logo slapped on the cover art, are already sitting on my shelf in DVD form, I'm looking forward to them for the people that don't have the financial means to be price gouged on ebay. And although I don't personally care about the Strike Witches movie, I want the Steins;Gate movie.

    But that's never been the point. the point is I want to know when these things are coming. Someone from Funimation could get on the forums right now and give a date, or at least which quarter of this year (or next, because if its 2018 then nobody can really say I'm being impatient), they will be released, and I'd shut up about it until then. That's all they would have to do.

    But they don't have release dates. If they did, we would know.

    So, who else is going to step up, and try to disprove my opinions and assessments of the situation with nothing more than their own opinions, theories, and complete lack of authoritative fact?



  • Doug, do you understand anything about how the Japanese do business?

    Contracts are done in triplicate, there are a lot of moving parts to these releases, and EVERYTHING requires approval from the responsible parties on the production committee in order for FUNimation to do things. Haruhi is 10 years old this year, finding the original paperwork and getting reapprovals is a Herculian endeavor.

    Furthermore, the Japanese are very concerned about "face'. If FUNimation were to make Kadokawa lose face by shifting the blame on their shoulders even if they are indeed solely responsible will mean that the approvals that FUNimation needs to make anything they have contracted with Kadokawa will stop. This would also jeopardize future acquistions and Kadokawa will see out other more discreet partners that know not to talk about Fight Club. This is the reason why we probably haven't heard anything.



  • @dougswisher:

    So, who else is going to step up, and try to disprove my opinions and assessments of the situation with nothing more than their own opinions, theories, and complete lack of authoritative fact?

    Why? It doesn't seem like we'll change your mind. You remind me of one of the other forum goers here who gets set in their own thinking and no one will be able to change their mind.

    Can't you just accept that none of us here knows?

    Have you tried just annoying the crap out of them via social media or something? Sometimes that works…



  • @dougswisher:

    You can't authoritatively tell me I am wrong, because you have no more facts than I do.

    We'll agree to disagree on this

    @dougswisher:

    Giving us answers isn't throwing anyone under the bus, except for maybe the person(s) at Funimation holding back on the release of these titles.

    You don't tell your consumer that your supplier is at fault. You never do this if you're trying to sell something. There's literally no benefit to painting your supplier as the bad guy because it doesn't speed up the process and it definitely doesn't help in future negotiations. It works the exact same in Rock Band, in the sense that the development company can't tell the consumer why they don't have a certain band, because throwing that record company under the bus, especially if negotiations are ongoing, is a quick way to end conversations prematurely

    There was a horror story a couple days ago about Rock Band 2. Evidently there was a deal to get classic Guns 'n Roses in the game. The deal was done and all that was needed was to deliver the masters. That's about the time when an Internet video game writer - someone who had no relation to Harmonix, the game dev company - made a joke report that Chinese Democracy (G'n'R's infamous album that was in recording for 14 years) was delayed yet again. This upset G'n'R to the point that they pulled out of the deal entirely and never sent the masters to Harmonix - who, again, had nothing at all to do with the article written. We still haven't seen classic G'n'R in the game, and it's unlikely we ever will

    As a more relevant example, that time people sleuthed out a couple of Funimation's simulcast licenses by manually altering URLs to find unannounced shows could have been catastrophic if the Japanese licensors caught wind of it and didn't want the license announced yet

    I mean, Hell, there was that story on ANN (which appears to have been deleted, if anyone else can find it) that talked about losing a license to a show because a keychain packed into the special edition was off-color, even though it was the color that the licensor gave them

    You need to understand that, in any industry that relies heavily on licensing and acquisitions, you're basically walking blindfolded through a minefield littered with eggshells and LEGO bricks. The most irrelevant, nonsensical, trivial matter can be the difference between profit and coming away with nothing

    @dougswisher:

    Also, it isn't the licensors that are providing their livelihood. It's **us[/], the customers. DO you even realize how silly you come off as with that statement?[/quote]

    It's both. It thought it was a given that a licensing company like Funimation would require both a supplier and a consumer to function, but that's what I get for assuming you had an understanding of how licensing works

    @dougswisher:

    The moment you convince yourself that a supplier, in any industry is a needless, benevolent entity, is the moment you at economics and business.

    I don't understand this sentence, both in structure and meaning

    @dougswisher:

    I don't believe that

    Haha, well, I guess that's where the discussion ends, then**



  • @dougswisher:

    I want answers, and I want them from someone who can actually speak about the issue officially.

    Oh, well if you want that I guarantee that the official response is going to be something like:

    "We have not made any announcements at this time. When we have a date we will let people know via X"

    (Almost word for word pulled from their FAQS lol)

    Until then, that is probably as official of an answer as you are going to get, and your option is to wait.

    /thread




Log in to reply