Esp 18 and rape



  • Is it just me or did Luis get off with out punishment for doing rape. That is bullshit. I would have ended him, or let him die. Not for a sec do i believe that he is now a better man because he lost?!!! That was the worst writing i have ever seen, that makes me so angry that i almost want to stop watching. Funny thing is i get holly, i get Bridget, i even get why he cant die he is a limiter and the only one able to get past his mother, Bridget's step mom. also the father might not take it well if his son were dead. I get all of that, but a resolution where all is forgiven is retarded. I didn't see any remorse, only cowardice, as he jumps off the cliff to escape his worthless life. True Remorse is soul shattering and turbulent, you have to build your self up again as you can see how worthless you are, how wrong you were, and how much destruction you caused. Death is preferable, but you cant as your penance makes that choice out of the question. And Bridget would need years to forgive, not an hour. And she would never trust him. I mean who could trust the person who raped you. That was one terrible ending for a story arc, on a good story. I wont watch this esp ever again, i might just skip this resolution in my memory, I will see how i feel about this show later, but this might be the last i watch of this show. Also Bridget's limiter is a weak, weak, weak man, i thought he was cooler than that, just standing there, not fighting for Bridget, waiting for her to resolve things. If that were me i would started by freezing the guy and girl and beat the shit out of that guy. We all know he can move while freezing and can also carry people out of an area, beating up some weak punk would have been no problem. Very lame. Just so people understand i am ranting, not critiquing, needed to say my piece.



  • I haven't seen this particular title, so as can't comment, but I commend you on your post. Sadly Rape fetishism is one of the many increasing problems with the anime medium.



  • unfortunately, that's how it all played out in the manga, and no one liked it then either. thankfully, A.C.G.T condensed the arc and put it inside the E-pandora arc so we didn't have so suffer nearly much as folks who read the manga



  • Remorse and cowardice can amount to the same thing, as it did in this situation. His actions, while unreasonable, weren't totally out of the blue. It's pretty obvious that he's not right in the head straight from the get-go, so it's definitely not a stretch for him to handle this situation as irrationally has he did with his love for Satellizer

    Kazuya didn't interfere at the beginning of the altercation because, quite frankly, he didn't really have a clue as to what was really going on, and he understands that he very well can't involve himself with a family that he had already admitted the episode before that he felt he shouldn't be a part of. It wasn't until it became a battle between two Pandora where he involved himself, because it was a fight between two Pandora, and I'm pretty sure they established in the first season that it's completely against the rules to interfere with the actual battle outside of containing your opponent

    Satellizer didn't show any sign whatsoever that she had forgiven her brother, or that she respected him. It was just her human nature to save him (or, probably more accurately, save Holly). As a far less noble reason, she knows that she needs her brother to convince her father to help stop the E-Pandora project, so it wouldn't do anyone any good to just straight up let him die. Those smiles of satisfaction she had at the end of the episode were more directed towards the fact that she had finally broken free of his metaphorical chains (a point that she said herself during the battle) as well as the happiness of knowing that she could rely on Kazuya and not be controlled by her brother. It had nothing to do with the fact that she was on good terms with her brother, since she isn't and I am quite sure that she never will be

    All that said, I will agree with you that he did get off completely scot-free for all the emotional damage he did, and that totally sucks. But I guess Karma isn't always something that works in a serious show

    @Soundmonkey44:

    Sadly Rape fetishism is one of the many increasing problems with the anime medium.

    That was not even close to what he was ranting about, but maybe it got lost on someone that isn't watching the simulcast



  • Hey All,

    Thanks for the replies.

    Riles i don't agree with your assessment of the esp.

    I believe the cowardice, I don't believe the remorse. I don't believe he is irrational either. He had faulted logic, but it made sense, if you believe the premise. He was rational, just had unreasonable desires, and obsession. His whole thing about helping Satellizer, if she gave him what he wanted was rational, just a unreasonable desire. Point I mean to make is that, i don't feel that a obsessive man, with those desires would stop just because she beat his other toy, or stopped listening to him. Obviously i would continue till i had what I wanted. it feels more like a honor thing to do, but no where do we see him with any honor.

    I get the first part of kazuya's inaction up to the point where the man hits him, but at that point; it would be on for me. Point is he lost respect in my eyes. Also there are no rules for Pandora fights, remember that whole esp where that 3rd year, challenged Satellizer, but told her to get a limiter first. Hell the esp before that where that 3rd year called the limiter eater, just ganged Satellizer and Kazuya on the roof, is a perfect example there being no rule. Now there might be an etiquette, but other than that, its battle.

    She did show signs that she trusted her brother, in that she let him tell their father the very, very important news she risked her sanity to get to her father. He says at the end, don't worry I'll talk to father. Yea she trusts him. And I don't know why.

    Again Riles thanks for the comments, made me think and i really appreciate that.



  • Yeah the whole rape thin really got under my skin. I was really hoping he would have got his just comings by the end of that. But instead we et a personality shift. While I don't like the idea of him getting away with such an obvious crim, the show is still good. And maybe at somepoint he wil have to own up to it.



  • Did they ever revisit this in the manga? Coz it sounds like they won't be changing it. If the storytellers worry about the shape of the story, seems to me it would be good if they go back and revisit this later, and then make him pay in some fashion.



  • I find that this part was indeed one of the more…annoying parts of it. But as it has been said, killing him wouldn't have gained them anything. So in the end, him not dying may have helped them out more then not. He feels he needs to "rectify" what he did wrong. And with that i may lead to a better end. We don't know as of yet. (i mean manga readers do, but i'm not talking in the perspective of that.)

    As for Kazuya, for some reason i remember him being much more aggressive against Louis. But that was in the manga. I'm glad they condensed it though to the much smaller form as they did. But still it was hard to watch. His...lack of noticing and not taking actions on some things will always annoy me. He didn't need to attack or anything, but there was some obvious signs something was wrong so early one. Though this is personality differences, but if i were in that situation in that sort of play, i probably would have stayed with my Pandora more often, and would have made efforts to not let her leave my sight (i mean when it first starts, any man that i knew would have noticed the reaction she had to her brother. i mean common XD)

    But that was the point, and it played out well. We hate him, because of it, and the write portrayed that character in such a way that it worked. Regardless though, we'll just have to hope it works out for the better for now. While secretly stabbing pictures of him over and over again :P



  • I believe, and I can't recall the episode, there was a point where this "relationship" between Luis and Satellizer was caught and he was chastised for it, but it still continued "in secret." But I do agree he got off a bit light. And the more egregious rape that caught my attention was when Luis took Holly. How can Chevalier and Genetics stand by as a limiter rapes his pandora? That is what I truly don't get.



  • ep 7 of season 1.

    I doubt anyone knew how Louis was treating Holly, since she likely kept it to herself



  • I THINK IT WAS **** UP!!! i mean damn i hated that esp serious that was bs. but that **** happens in real life to every day!!! but why did her limiter what ever his name **** there like a bitch that the worse part. i believe that they did it on purpose . i really didnt think of watching it again.



  • Just to be clear Satellizer was never actually raped by Luis. Yes there was inappropriate touching and psychological trauma but it never went further than that.

    The anime skipped some details but the fact that he didn't rape her is made pretty clear when he refuses her invitation to "do whatever you want" and he basically has a mental breakdown.

    The guy obviously is a huge siscon but even he won't cross a certain line. "Why did you have to be born my sister?!"

    Manga details that were skipped were flashbacks that showed he initially had no hatred of Satellizer (even beat up some kids who teased her) but his personality was partially warped because his mother always treated Satellizer poorly. Stupid logic but hey there are kids who imitate the behavior of their parents.

    Also that his treatment of Satellizer as a kid originally just began as innocent pranks that later got out of control.

    Not defending the guy but just wanted to lay out the facts. Satellizer was never raped.

    There are some confused fans who strongly believe she was but she wasn't. Luis DID rape Holly Rose though.

    He purposely chose to be partnered with a pandora at Genetics UK who looked similar to Satellizer so he could fulfill his twisted desires…

    Some fans hate that he got off too easy but it just shows that Satellizer is a better human being and realizes revenge isn't always the answer.



  • Agreed Getchman.

    She probably did, but wouldn't her mental state while in combat be monitored. I would think, the rape trauma might resurface from time to time during an Ereinbar Set.



  • @FrameFreeze100:

    Just to be clear Satellizer was never actually raped by Luis. Yes there was inappropriate touching and psychological trauma but it never went further than that.

    The anime skipped some details but the fact that he didn't rape her is made pretty clear when he refuses her invitation to "do whatever you want" and he basically has a mental breakdown.

    The guy obviously is a huge siscon but even he won't cross a certain line. "Why did you have to be born my sister?!"

    Manga details that were skipped were flashbacks that showed he initially had no hatred of Satellizer (even beat up some kids who teased her) but his personality was partially warped because his mother always treated Satellizer poorly. Stupid logic but hey there are kids who imitate the behavior of their parents.

    Also that his treatment of Satellizer as a kid originally just began as innocent pranks that later got out of control.

    Not defending the guy but just wanted to lay out the facts. Satellizer was never raped.

    There are some confused fans who strongly believe she was but she wasn't. Luis DID rape Holly Rose though.

    He purposely chose to be partnered with a pandora at Genetics UK who looked similar to Satellizer so he could fulfill his twisted desires…

    Some fans hate that he got off too easy but it just shows that Satellizer is a better human being and realizes revenge isn't always the answer.

    you need to ****** watching what it again my pal



  • @onemannation2012:

    you need to fucking watching what it again my pal

    He's not wrong… You should rewatch it and get your facts right. But seeing how you're randomly swearing and probably didn't even read his entire post I doubt you will so enjoy being a fool "my pal"

    Personally I don't know why some fans are getting so worked up over this. Yes it's unpleasant but if they learn the facts maybe they'll learn not to jump to conclusions so quickly...



  • It really got to me the first time I saw it, now I just jump over that part and enjoy the rest of the show.



  • i keep seeing this thread at the top of the board and it keeps confusing me. is everyone talking about louis' past actions or did he end up raping someone else in episode 18 no ones explaining all they are doing is complaining about the reprecutions he got. ok so i just scrolled up and read one of the posts apparently no one got raped but still things are a bit confusing so could someone clearify?



  • @FrameFreeze100:

    Just to be clear Satellizer was never actually raped by Luis. Yes there was inappropriate touching and psychological trauma but it never went further than that.

    The anime skipped some details but the fact that he didn't rape her is made pretty clear when he refuses her invitation to "do whatever you want" and he basically has a mental breakdown.

    The guy obviously is a huge siscon but even he won't cross a certain line. "Why did you have to be born my sister?!"

    Manga details that were skipped were flashbacks that showed he initially had no hatred of Satellizer (even beat up some kids who teased her) but his personality was partially warped because his mother always treated Satellizer poorly. Stupid logic but hey there are kids who imitate the behavior of their parents.

    Also that his treatment of Satellizer as a kid originally just began as innocent pranks that later got out of control.

    Not defending the guy but just wanted to lay out the facts. Satellizer was never raped.

    There are some confused fans who strongly believe she was but she wasn't. Luis DID rape Holly Rose though.

    He purposely chose to be partnered with a pandora at Genetics UK who looked similar to Satellizer so he could fulfill his twisted desires…

    Some fans hate that he got off too easy but it just shows that Satellizer is a better human being and realizes revenge isn't always the answer.

    I was under the impression that he had raped in the past and after reading this thread I'm not sure I'm convinced it didn't happen 100% as they played that story out extremely well. I can see how people were so upset with this because I found myself affected by it as well, to the point I was actually shaking in anger; I wanted Luis to get more than he got but, it was necessary for the story that he do his part. And yeah Satellizer will never forgive but she also had to move forward with her own life, she obviously cared for Kazuya so in order to be with him she had to "slay her own demon"; And that was the bottom line! She was never "free" to be happy because of her fears of Luis but since she drew the line in the sand and beat him she could truly be free and bond with Kazuya via the Baptism.



  • There is a lot of darkness in this story, and Satellizer's being abused is a big case of it. In my opinion it is not treated sympathetically; it is presented as the inhuman brutality that it is (note that I haven't seen the second season, but I've read the manga). I have a hard time recommending what is otherwise a terrific story to some people because almost right off the bat you get Miyabi's humiliation of Satellizer (in the manga it's even harder to get through; they toned it down a lot for the anime), and then you have to deal with Louis' incestuous maltreatment of her. Those are tough subjects to get into at all. I completely understand how someone could be outraged and disgusted; I think that's the point!

    But like the commenter said: this stuff happens in real life. There are some sick and twisted people in the world that the Pandoras are being asked to put their lives on the line to protect. I can't say whether the way Satellizer responds is a good or bad treatment of this subject. I do think it works for the story, and Satellizer is a deeper character for it.



  • @Das1s:

    Is it just me or did Luis get off with out punishment for doing rape. That is bullshit. I would have ended him, or let him die. Not for a sec do i believe that he is now a better man because he lost?!!! That was the worst writing i have ever seen, that makes me so angry that i almost want to stop watching. Funny thing is i get holly, i get Bridget, i even get why he cant die he is a limiter and the only one able to get past his mother, Bridget's step mom. also the father might not take it well if his son were dead. I get all of that, but a resolution where all is forgiven is retarded. I didn't see any remorse, only cowardice, as he jumps off the cliff to escape his worthless life. True Remorse is soul shattering and turbulent, you have to build your self up again as you can see how worthless you are, how wrong you were, and how much destruction you caused. Death is preferable, but you cant as your penance makes that choice out of the question. And Bridget would need years to forgive, not an hour. And she would never trust him. I mean who could trust the person who raped you. That was one terrible ending for a story arc, on a good story. I wont watch this esp ever again, i might just skip this resolution in my memory, I will see how i feel about this show later, but this might be the last i watch of this show. Also Bridget's limiter is a weak, weak, weak man, i thought he was cooler than that, just standing there, not fighting for Bridget, waiting for her to resolve things. If that were me i would started by freezing the guy and girl and beat the shit out of that guy. We all know he can move while freezing and can also carry people out of an area, beating up some weak punk would have been no problem. Very lame. Just so people understand i am ranting, not critiquing, needed to say my piece.

    Weak? Maybe.. Slow to process what's going on most likely. That kinda info hits you about someone you love..
    Your gonna hit denial first, then realization kicks in (most likely) regarding behaviours… Yes, kazuya could have gone all nuclear ... Etc.. But satellizer IMO needed to work it out herself with him at her side.

    Yea, I'm sure some phd could tell me I'm wrong.. ;)

    The manga version goes deeper into detail, but no, not for the feint of heart, they did it justice in the anime without lingering on it longer than they had to...

    Your hating on kazuya.. Great.. WHere is that hate for violet? She brought them together in the same resort again knowing what she knew. Where's howard el Bridgett? He can't be clueless after all this time either... What about dear ole step mom.. She allowed Louis's treatment belittling satellizer... Certainly didn't NOT abuse her...

    No wonder the poor girl reacts like she did to being touched...

    @quigonj:

    Did they ever revisit this in the manga? Coz it sounds like they won't be changing it. If the storytellers worry about the shape of the story, seems to me it would be good if they go back and revisit this later, and then make him pay in some fashion.

    Kazuya destroys all supposed evidence that Louis gives him on a flash drive… I'm guessing in his mind he's protecting satellizer ...

    1. her past doesn't natter to him, he doesn't want to see it
    2. he doesn't want anyone else to see it...
    3. he is Aoi Gengo's grandson.. And part of the military complex.
    4. Bridgett's are supporters of Gengo and the "military genetics complex" (Louis and Satellizer are both el Bridgett's...)
      How many tines does something get shoved under the rug during war ? Plenty I'm sure. This is also a 40+ year war...

    I've not seen it clearly, gonna read the manga again but Louis does supposedly help a time or two later.. Specially something to do with epandoras.. ?

    I saw a review hating on the Louis arc and stayed clear from freezing because of it.. Wish I hadnt...



  • @quigonj:

    Did they ever revisit this in the manga? Coz it sounds like they won't be changing it. If the storytellers worry about the shape of the story, seems to me it would be good if they go back and revisit this later, and then make him pay in some fashion.

    @lazarusadam:

    Agreed Getchman.

    She probably did, but wouldn't her mental state while in combat be monitored. I would think, the rape trauma might resurface from time to time during an Ereinbar Set.

    She doesn't have a full proper limiter.. Kazuya hasn't had a baptism with her yet. The ereinbar set that kazuya does with her is like a wide broadcast… ALL pandoras feel it.

    You would also think the military would be able to test for this type of ptsd by that point.. I mean I recognised it in the first couple chapters.. The first episode as ptsd of a sort...

    @Jibriel1046:

    i keep seeing this thread at the top of the board and it keeps confusing me. is everyone talking about louis' past actions or did he end up raping someone else in episode 18 no ones explaining all they are doing is complaining about the reprecutions he got. ok so i just scrolled up and read one of the posts apparently no one got raped but still things are a bit confusing so could someone clearify?

    Define rape…you could argue satellizer is raped/abused multiple times at west genetics.. By upperclassmen for disrespecting them... It's sexual assault either way...

    That said, holly rose is the only traditional rape victim IMO... and that might be questionable.. It's her limiter.. Who she loves.. Sure no means no.. But the waters get murky...interpretively speaking.

    Either way it's a tough subject to have in a manga/anime...


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