Flash to HTML5



  • I'm sick and tired of all the stupid holes from Adobe Flash that shows up every week.

    Any chance if Funimation will move to HTML5?

    Youtube is changing over to HTML5 and Facebook don't want to use Flash anymore….



  • I'm gonna move this over to The Suggestion Box forum where I think it'll make more of an impact. :)



  • We have an HTML5 player, actually. However, it is only available to users on Safari 6.0+.

    Because we stream using HLS format and because HLS isn't supported in all browsers on HTML5, we are unable to use our HTML5 player on the other browsers. The Flash player, on the other hand, supports HLS, so that is why we have to use it in every other browser except for Safari 6.0+.

    Once there is enough browser support, we will most likely switch completely over to HTML5.

    The reason why you see HTML5 on YouTube, although not served by default, is because YouTube doesn't stream using HLS.

    Here's some information on HLS + HTML5 video: http://www.jwplayer.com/html5/hls/

    Here's some information on HLS itself: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_Live_Streaming



  • Well hopefully you guys can move it it sooner than later. With Chrome and Firefox blocking all Flash versions by default now, it's gonna be harder to watch stuff on the site.



  • What I don't understand is that I get a fully-functional video player when I spoof my user agent. Playback, fullscreen, seeking, switching audio tracks, etc all work just fine. I'm on Firefox 39.0.



  • Yeah, allow me to add my voice to this. Ever since Chrome and Firefox blocked Flash, I can't watch anything from my computer. I really wanted to check out the new Space Dandy and Tokyo Ghoul trailers, but when I go to the trailer page (or any streaming video page on FUNimation, rather), I get nothing but blank space.

    It doesn't bother me personally as I mainly use my Xbox 360 to stream video, but I know a lot of your users don't have any other devices to watch things on other than their computers. These people are paying 8 bucks a month for the service, and right now they can't even use it.

    Something's gotten happen, and it's gotta happen NOW. Or else you're gonna have a lot of angry folks on your hands. :hmm:



  • @SpacemanHardy:

    Ever since Chrome and Firefox blocked Flash, I can't watch anything from my computer.

    There's an updated version of Flash that was put out this morning (18.0.0.209), so update if you haven't yet. I'm not having problems viewing videos here with Firefox, though it was blocked prior to getting the update.

    I do think that it's definitely time to move on from Flash, however, given the vulnerabilities.



  • You CAN just allow Flash. Neither browser prevents you from clicking Yes on their pop up (though I have issues with some pop ups in FireFox sometimes, but that's a different issue.

    Now, that doesn't address the issue of if you SHOULD or what the security risks of using Flash are right now, but Firefox changing things shouldn't be preventing anyone from watching anything that they were able to watch a few days ago. It's just a default now.



  • @Sophie:

    The reason why you see HTML5 on YouTube, although not served by default, is because YouTube doesn't stream using HLS.

    On a technical note, YouTube switched to HTML5 as the default early this year:
    http://www.theverge.com/2015/1/27/7926001/youtube-drops-flash-for-html5-video-default

    Given b0rk's comment above, I'm also curious if Firefox 39 now supports HLS, or if this is a case of "works, but shouldn't".



  • @TheAncientOne - Good to know. The last time I looked at which player was being served on YouTube was some time last year, so that lines up at least.



  • By all indications, (including your Wiki link) HLS will remain an Apple only solution for the foreseeable future.

    Encrypted Media Extensions (EME) is a solution that's moving forward to being fully standardized by the W3C and almost all browsers already support it. Netflix moved over to it more than 2 years ago now so, it works an a lot of content providers are comfortable with that protecting their content. I'm curious if you already looked into this and found a problem that isn't widely known?

    Netflix Tech announcement from April 2013: http://techblog.netflix.com/2013/04/html5-video-at-netflix.html

    Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encrypted_Media_Extensions



  • From my experience, the HTML5 player is mostly working on some Android web browsers that I've tried as well. Just tested it with Chrome 43 and Firefox 40 on Android 4.4.4. If I recall correctly, the player was working in much earlier versions of these browsers as well. Mobile browsers in general do not support Flash unless you(or sometimes your update provider) specifically install packages to support that. Flash is being phased out in most mobile platforms anyway.

    The playback seems fine. The only drawback on mobile is that the player UI does not appear due to the lack of mouse interaction. It doesn't seem to listen to touch events yet.

    @geopirate - Android platforms Honeycomb or later are all HLS-capable. This is not an Apple only solution… The implementation may not have been a smooth process, but most issues have been resolved now as far as I know. There are many other players that now support HLS since its introduction.



  • @compmaster - Ok, I'll admit there has been some work on Android supporting HLS but even with Lollipop it's still pretty spotty. Still this is the only other browser/platform outside of the Apple ecosystem that I know of it working on. I think I'm in the majority in that I don't pay for Funimation to watch it on my 4" phone screen. What are the "many other players" that now support it as I've not heard anything about the other desktop browsers picking it up, or consoles or…..

    I'm guessing that initially going with HLS was a response to Apple no longer supporting flash, but there are other HTML5 solutions that already work for pretty much everyone. This means Funimation would only have to support 1 standard instead of the current at least 2 that they do and they would benefit from reduced bandwidth. Users would benefit from being able to dump Flash this is the only streaming site I use that uses flash still and it's by far the most glitchy.



  • @geopirate - Things like Kodi(XBMC), Roku set-top boxes, and newer smart TVs are the main ones that I was thinking about. They are all capable of using HLS. In regards to other desktop browser support, Firefox, Chrome, and Edge support HLS (not to forget things like DASH via Media Source Extension APIs as well ;-) ). In my opinion, the capability is there… it is just the lack of adoption of these new technologies.

    HTML5 web technologies is the way to go, but as long as there are people using computers from the stone ages, there will always be a need for a fallback like Flash...



  • @compmaster - Yes all of the browsers you mentioned may be theoretically capable of handling HLS if it were ever implemented, but the implementation hasn't happened and there seem to be no plans to make it happen. I don't have a Roku but I tested all of the other platforms/browsers you mentioned on Linux and Windows 8.1/10 today and I could not get HLS to work on any of them. Keep in mind standardized HTML5 implementations do currently work. DASH again implements W3C standardized Media Source Extensions and Encrypted Media Extensions (which I mentioned in my initial post) and HLS is not part of these standards. There is no reason for anyone to adopt HLS because the work has already been done on standardized versions of the same thing that already work almost everywhere.

    Using a computer from the stone ages is yet another reason to dump flash as Flash uses more CPU/memory than any HTML5 stream of the same quality. Unless you're actually running windows XP or something, it really shouldn't matter much if you're on older hardware.



  • @geopirate - How are you testing for HLS support? The developer network at Mozilla has put together a nice list of what common browsers support: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Apps/Build/Audio_and_video_delivery/Live_streaming_web_audio_and_video#Streaming_File_Format_Support

    Between HLS and DASH, you can support the majority of the internet users. Flash may use more memory/CPU in many cases, but as long as there are browsers that are not HTML5 compliant, there will be a need for the fallback.



  • http://bgr.com/2015/10/15/adobe-flash-player-security-vulnerability-warning/

    can ANYONE at Funimation SERIOUSLY work on getting rid of Flash once and for all?!??!?!!

    this is getting serious that Flash is making people's computer vulnerable and Adobe's solution is to uninstall it….

    come on! we ARE paying for your service and make that service fun AND safe for EVERYONE!!!



  • Yes, this is being worked on. However, as has been discussed in this thread already, we are waiting for HLS support in more browsers. That being said, apparently Microsoft Edge supports it, and I have already mentioned it to the higher ups. I will also mention EME. It may already be being considered.



  • @Sophie:

    Yes, this is being worked on. However, as has been discussed in this thread already, we are waiting for HLS support in more browsers. That being said, apparently Microsoft Edge supports it, and I have already mentioned it to the higher ups. I will also mention EME. It may already be being considered.

    Microsoft Edge does not stream while "Use Adobe Flash Player" is turned off….I uninstalled Flash for now and watching Netflix but I would like to have option to stream Funimation while using Microsoft Edge, Internet Explorer, or Firefox...



  • Microsoft Edge has HLS support, but it isn't enabled for Edge in Funimation's player. I'm glad someone noticed my post last month.



  • I used a user agent switcher extension in Firefox to tell the website I was using mobile safari and the video player worked fine except there was no full screen button. It worked perfectly otherwise. You guys could do that until it's fully supported.


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