Controversial opinions…



  • **I just finished this series and as with all series I finish on FUNimation (3 so far), I post up in the official thread for the series itself.

    What I want to say is the following:

    1. The character development over time is really the best, and maybe only really good thing about this series. Lawrence and Holo both change over time, and it is good that the creative team had the vision and patience to do so.

    2. I found the ending somewhat weak. Lawrence only gives Holo a brief kiss after waiting so long? He loves Holo, and she clearly a very attractive woman. Imagine you have a deepening relationship with someone and then finally have the courage not only to tell them how you feel, but also to kiss them. Would that kiss last all of two seconds? If it did last two seconds, it would surely be followed by a longer, deeper, more passionate kiss. Also, Holo is not able to verbally admit her love for Lawrence? She certainly does not have any difficulty expressing herself otherwise. This felt, well, a little clichéd. And please, were these two an actual man and an actual goddess, they would have been very physically intimate with each other long, long before the unsatisfying ending of the series.

    3. THE ECONOMICS. I'm certainly no Warren Buffett (only Warren Buffet is), but I am not an idiot either. And yet, I rarely fully understood the economic machinations in the series. I often had the feeling that I wanted to go into a study room with a few friends and fully press apart all of the dealings of Holo and Lawrence out on a white board, with each member explaining subjects until we were certain that we all understood. It is interesting that a series about an immortal goddess and a humble merchant is so grounded in real world situations, but I think it might have gone a bit far in this regard. For me I could have used a little more outright fantasy.

    4. THE CHURCH. In a world of such (presumably) gods and goddesses, would the church even exist? And if so, would it be so powerful without people seeing it as just another trading house (which it apparently is in the series). And if such gods, goddesses, and other immortal beings do exist, would there not be some kind of magic? Should we not see more of it? Or can Holo truly only make wheat grow well?

    5. The animation. I would never describe this series as "lovingly animated". I think all I need to say on this topic is that all one needs to do is look at Lawrence's pathetically rendered beard.

    Having said all of this, I suppose that one could tell I do not hold this series in high regard. I give it only two wolf paws out of a possible four (of course). I will not be purchasing the digital media of this series, and will not recommend it to friends.**



  • I think you're forgetting an important detail in their relationship that impacts how they weren't involved intimately early on: Holo is afraid of how close she feels to Lawrence because she knows he will die long before she does. She is afraid of loving him because she fears losing him and the ensuing pain and loneliness. She has undergone this before, and the second season dealt with it a lot (her nightmare in the beginning, her demanding a child, etc). Holo is terrified of her growing feelings for Lawrence and thus I don't think she would be likely to be intimate with him until she overcame that fear. I agree that the ending leaves viewers wanting (I'm reading the novels now since the anime only covered the beginning of the story) and that kiss was underwhelming.

    The animation is poor, yes. There is no denying that.

    I disagree with the economics and magic but that's more personal taste. I do think that it's possible the Church would exist and be powerful. People lost faith in their "gods", if a new one stepped up with a convincing sales pitch and a strong economic and political presence that would further drive down belief in beings like Holo, who probably didn't spend much time interacting directly with very many people. Also, I may be misremembering but I can't recall it being stated that they're truly immortal. I was under the impression that Holo and the others are simply very long-lived and will eventually die.



  • I started this series yesterday and finished watching both seasons today. I am a fan and I did enjoy it very much but as with almost every anime I've seen I am disappointed in the ending but because I enjoyed it as much as I did I researched the show a bit. The series covers the books chapter 1-5. The books end at chapter 17. Yes that means not even 1/3 of the story was covered in the anime. It stopped never ended. The story continues for much longer.

    1. I agree the character development progresses exceptionally well.
    2. I already explained the ending wasn't a ending.
    3. lol the economics where rather … Involved. Certainly a different yet oddly entertaining theme.
    4. the church is a mirror of the Roman Catholic Church. This is pretty much how it happened. Pagan cultures where replaced by a new religion. And the church was extremely political, financial evolved. It was run by nobles to gain wealth and control the masses with fear and superstition.
    5. yes well the animation was "adequate". While nothing special it wasn't terrible. This was a story not special effects run anime so I understand that. It was good enough to be enjoyable and not bad enough to take away from the fine points.

    Personally I Am a fan. I wish the anime would have covered the whole story, I am very tired of finding anime that I enjoy only to power through them on a weekend to find yet again a story that is never finished, leaving me wanting more, or at least closure and left feeling "and?!"



  • I am very tired of finding anime that I enjoy only to power through them on a weekend to find yet again a story that is never finished, leaving me wanting more, or at least closure and left feeling "and?!"

    This is the case with pretty much every anime that is an adaptation of a previous work. Spice and Wolf is obviously notorious for leaving fans wanting more, but at the end of the day it's still an advertisement for people to buy the novels.



  • @Firefly:

    I do think that it's possible the Church would exist and be powerful. People lost faith in their "gods", if a new one stepped up with a convincing sales pitch and a strong economic and political presence that would further drive down belief in beings like Holo, who probably didn't spend much time interacting directly with very many people. Also, I may be misremembering but I can't recall it being stated that they're truly immortal. I was under the impression that Holo and the others are simply very long-lived and will eventually die.

    I suppose we have to agree to disagree then. The difference between our world and the world of Holo is that in ours, no gods or goddesses have truly existed, leaving humanity to be repeatedly exploited by various religious mythologies, such as Christianity or Islam. I think things would be different if the gods and goddesses actually did exist and could be proven to be so. From the series, we don't know if all of the gods and goddesses are as shy as Holo, though I suppose it is implied. Also, I believe you are right about the immortality factor – I do not think it is explicitly clarified.



  • @7jaws7:

    This is the case with pretty much every anime that is an adaptation of a previous work. Spice and Wolf is obviously notorious for leaving fans wanting more, but at the end of the day it's still an advertisement for people to buy the novels.

    I hope this isn't actually true, but it does make sense! I think more series should be able to stand freely on their own with a satisfying conclusion. Any suggestions for the future?



  • There are plenty of anime that either came before or coincided with a manga/novel and have an appropriate ending, but I recommend these the most:

    Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion
    Cowboy Bebop
    FLCL
    Last Exile
    Neon Genesis Evangelion
    Paranoia Agent
    Princess Tutu
    Psycho-Pass
    Puella Magi Madoka Magica
    Revolutionary Girl Utena
    Spirited Away
    The Vision of Escaflowne
    Wolf's Rain



  • @7jaws7:

    Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion
    Cowboy Bebop
    FLCL
    Last Exile
    Neon Genesis Evangelion
    Paranoia Agent
    Princess Tutu
    Psycho-Pass
    Puella Magi Madoka Magica
    Revolutionary Girl Utena
    Spirited Away
    The Vision of Escaflowne
    Wolf's Rain

    Well, I added "Last Exile" to my queue, but the rest I either already have in my queue ("FLCL") or have already viewed ("Wolf's Rain"). Sadly, many of the titles you suggest are not licensed by FUNimation. But thank you for the suggestions!



  • Of the anime listed there, I recall Madoka being anime original?

    I agree that anime should be able to be seen through to the end.
    I actually came here today curious as to why this one was cut short as it were.

    As to your question, yes, Holo's world is indeed different in that one pivotal point.
    That doesn't mean everything changes there necessarily.
    The church of Holo's world is every bit as influential as in ours.



  • @mariotag:

    Of the anime listed there, I recall Madoka being anime original?

    To my knowledge, every anime I mentioned in my list is original. Madoka does have several manga spin-offs, some currently on-going.


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