Show Some Love To The Farier Nerds on March 8th.
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The anime fandom, and nerd culture in general, has a lot of problems in terms of treatment and attitude toward women. Women are being bullied and harassed for speaking out against certain aspects of online /nerd culture. A lot of women feel marginalized in the fandoms they are a part of. A lot of people in the fandom are either ignorant or afraid of these kinds of issues, and thus it is largely silenced & ignored.
Whether or not you find these issues particularly severe, whether or not you believe in feminism, whether or not you agree with some of the ideas being voiced by outspoken individuals, I think everyone can acknowledge that bullying and harassment toward woman does happen, and that gender inequality (in many forms) is a prevalent part in society, as well as our fandoms, today.
March 8th is International Women's Appriciation Day, So show our lovely nerdettes some love either by Hangin out with em, or in an online environment acknowledging them & reporting those that harass them!
So if you see someone attacking a female, brony, comic geek, otaku, gamer, etc, don't be afraid to help em out!
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March 8th is International Women's Appriciation Day,
Make sure you pat them on the butt as you pass by them in the kitchen!
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I make every day Women Appreciation Day, if you know what I'm sayin'. Baby, did you sit in some sugar? 'Cause you've got a sweet ass
Anyway, you're a month early. April 8th is the better holiday
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I appreciate women…
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Interesting article from the Roundstasble about Femininity, Media & toys.
http://www.roundstable.com/2014/03/08/a-step-forward-too-late/
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The issue with that article, aside from the fact that it’s from a bigoted site is that it’s mostly anecdotal; I can easily put something similar to that together with my experiences growing up. This person mentioned how they had more conservative parents trying to force her into buying “girls” toys when in my experience, my parents pretty much took an attitude of “if that’s what you want, we won’t stop you.”
I grew up on a farm, so most of the girls I grew up with were tomboys as rough and tumble as the rest of us. They came out during recess to play soccer, they’d come tobogganing, or during the summer come out and catch frogs with us.
Yet many of them, when it came to toys, simply preferred the Pepto-Bismol Parade that were the girl toy aisles at the stores; there was no forcing anyone to buy or play with certain toys in our community. I think there was only one girl that was heavy into Transformers, but she was also a puzzle fanatic.
Then there was my sister, who, like younger siblings, did have her times where she annoyed me. She would always get Barbie or Pony toys but then, get into my toys when I went to school. I remember coming home one day to find my dinosaur collection all over the living room floor, my Ghost Busters Ectoplasm stuck to the carpet and GIJOE figures everywhere.
I was upset because she got into my stuff without asking, not because “she’s a girl who shouldn’t play with my boy stuff.” I have gladly lend her some of my toys to play with when she asked and brought it back after she was done and my parents had no issue with this. As for when we got our first game console which was a Sega Master System, she’d play it a little, but for the most part was not interested. Eventually, my parents would give her some of her own GIJOE figurines along with the “girl” toys she wanted during Christmas and such, and she played with those just as much.
Interestingly enough, when my family moved into the city and we were at a department store, my mother decided to get my sister and I a treat; an action figure. We each got a GIJOE figure and thought nothing of it, another family across the aisle had two girls and a boy, they were all buying Barbie toys, even the boy and from the sounds of it, he had a rather large collection at home. I remember my sister and I snickering at this boy buying a Barbie, and our mother lectured us on how and why there's nothing wrong with that.
The problem with this article is that the individual writing it seems to believe every household and young girl’s experience is the same as hers.
I do agree about older TV shows and how any of the shows that targeted boys were more kinetic and fun while many girl shows were somewhat lame. Well, not completely, My Little Pony at the time did have action and adventure and, as a kid, it was fun to watch; my parents would rent videos and they’d usually get a Transformers and My Little Pony video and my sister and I would watch both together.
Then there was Jem, which, despite being a girl’s show was pretty intricate, detailed and quite suspenseful at times; the show made being a rock star look like a scary occupation. Oh, and the villains on there, they were a foil of the main characters, very sinister and they played the devil’s music; heavy rock and roll while the good guys played pop music; no worries, they played guitar, drums and such, they weren’t pop idols.
Let’s not forget about She-Ra, Mattel’s answer to He-Man to create an action figure and series that would appeal to girls. Unfortunately a lot of girls didn’t get into the series, however boys did and speaking objectively, it does have better animation and story construction than the He-Man cartoon. This is evidence as to why many companies don’t make action hero shows for girls in the same way it’s done for boys; it only catches on with a few girls, which sucks because my sister had a figure of She-Ra and it had a sword and some other weapons, but the hair was also brushible. So it was the best of both worlds; a doll and an action hero/figure, you’d think something like that would catch on, but it didn’t do too well.
This is where, even when a really cool action hero like She-Ra is marketed to girls, many of them just don’t go for it. As I said, it was a good cartoon for the time with a female lead, which, in my opinion could beat the crap out of Sailor Moon and was a lot more edgy, serious, rational and chivalrous. What I find interesting is how a character like She-Ra, who possesses all the characteristics of a truly strong female lead seems to strike a chord more with a male demographic while the intended female demographic move along with their nose in the air.
So, with a few exceptions of decent for the time shows for girls which do pale in comparison to the newer incarnation of My little Pony, many of the other shows were not a lot of fun. Here’s the thing though, and I think I know why; the old “boy” shows like GIJOE, Transformers, and The Real Ghostbusters were done in a way they were accessible to everyone; they were fun family entertainment the way the new Pony series is now.
That’s the issue with many of the older “girl” shows with the exceptions of shows like Jem, She-Ra and the Old My Little Pony (yes, it sucks by today’s standards, but when I was a kid, it was pretty good); they were made only for girls and nobody else.
The fact is that girl toys can still be sold in the “pink” section and aimed at a female demographic, but those characters can still be action heroes just like the characters on the new Pony series.
Sailor Moon was also brought up and on that note, when it was originally written in Japan; they really didn’t expect it to be as successful as it was because they thought most girls wouldn’t be interested and boys would want no part of it, which is why after the first season it ended with a conclusion without any indication the series was going to come back. Something they didn’t count on happened; the series caught on with many young girls in Japan which made it successful enough, but it also did well with the male demographic. Everyone loved it and even though I’ve only watched one season, I understand why; it was a female superhero which was a fresh idea for anime at the time and she wasn’t portrayed as perfect either. I remember the series catching on over here in the early 90’s and how a lot of people, both boys and girls were jazzed about it, at the time, I never was able to get into it, but I understand the appeal.
As for the topic at hand, March holds a far more significant day for me and it isn’t St. Patrick’s Day. Lastly, as far as November, International Men’s Day and “Movember” go, I’ve seen complete indifference to it in Geek Culture, even finding on many anime forums people (who self-identify as feminists) talking about how stupid “Movember” is. I suppose raising awareness of cancers that target men like testicular and prostate cancer is “stupid” because they are male exclusive cancers.
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I don't agree with some of the things in this thread, but I think we can all agree that having more geeky/nerdy women out there, who feel comfortable in being geeky/nerdy is a good thing.
So a shout out to all the gamer girls and video dames, all the ladies out there watching anime, whether you prefer it pink and sparkly or dark and bloody, or somewhere in between, and all the women who are interested and passionate about any "fan" anything, whether it's traditionally feminine or not.
Keep being awesome– and keep fighting to get into traditionally masculine fan spaces. Your passion and dedication and love for the things you love shines through, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying or scared of you.
There's space for everyone in any hobby or passion. You're all awesome and you all make your particular fandoms richer for being there.
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Interesting article from the Roundstasble about Femininity, Media & toys.
I'm just gonna leave this here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/8530-Pink-Is-Not-The-Problem
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Well At least CJ & Renzo are participating
@Neon: Dood…. Not cool. Article Made some good points. And the forums do not represent the quality of the articles on the site.
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Honestly I’ve had a hard time coming into this thread, it’s a weird catch 22 where I don’t want to jump in and act like a White Knight, but it is poisonous to the fandom to just ignore the real issues at play here… I guess it all comes down to the ulterior motives for why I would fight for the fairer sex…
It’s not because I want to gain favor, it’s not because I believe girls are weaker, no it’s because I feel my actions would directly make someone’s day a little better, more enjoyable, and that makes me feel better inside.
With that said… dude you guys are making Kitchen jokes? I thought those died out before the internet was invented? I tend to stay away from jokes that don’t elicit a hearty belly laugh and instead produce nervous forced chuckles and averted eyes. I know it’s hard to read the situation on a forum but damn, keep posts of that grade to Youtube comments and 4chan posts (where at least you can post anonymously).
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I can participate if you want, but it's probably going to upset you because I think it's a stupid and arbitrary "holiday" to follow. It's appalling that whoever came up with it thought that either people needed [A] a day to remind people to be respectful towards women, or **only one day of the year where gender bullying is inappropriate. It feels equal parts contrived and condescending, and puts it on a level of people actively celebrating when an athlete announces he's gay, because it's been arbitrarily been built up in a way that makes it way more important than it should be. Do women actually feel more at ease that there is a day where they're respected a bit better, or is it a ridiculous man-created tradition that boasts anything but equality?
That said though, I'm not a woman, so maybe I'm the one taking it the wrong way and it's actually a great idea for the female persuasion to get behind
I think I'm a better poster when I make crass jokes rather than type out controversial stuff like this**
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I agree its sad we need holidays to remind people to treat other decently. But at the same time dedicating days to observe a person, people or genders accomplishments is overall formed as a way to empower so the intent is good. And people like holidays.
I think calling any holiday stupid is silly. They are done with good intentions overall.
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The only two American holidays with purely good intentions in mind are birthdays and Veterans' Day. Everything else has an ulterior motive from one group or another
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@Riles: You are free to think what you want, but I disagree
@Stock: Agreed! 110%
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Mission accomplished. 8)
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@Neon: Dood…. Not cool. Article Made some good points. And the forums do not represent the quality of the articles on the site.
Not really, it was anecdotal just like my post was, and I’ve heard it all before, it was quite slanted; and the site it came from pretty much has a cross off mark on it due to what I’ve seen there. This sort of thing has been experimented with in Sweden and the finds are quite tongue in cheek to be honest; they swapped the “gendered” toys by giving the young girls toy trucks and action figures and they gave boys dolls and toy cooking sets. The findings were funny; the type of toy didn’t change the kind of play these kids partook in; boys were more rugged with their toys, played war games and were more kinetic while the girls were playing “house” with the action figures and putting the trucks in toy beds and such. I found it all to be quite remarkable.
Pink aisle, blue aisle; who gives a crap? Kids get their parents to buy them what they want, and, in these times, at least with people I know, the parents comply with these requests regardless of whether the toy is sociologically “appropriate” for them. If you ask me, parents who don’t respect their children’s wishes about this; say, telling their son who wants a Barbie doll over that X-Men Wolverine figure that it’s wrong of him to want that, is to me, poor parenting. As I said in my last post, my mother lectured my sister and I for snickering at the young boy buying a Barbie doll on the car ride home, and the irony; we never thought anything wrong with my sister getting a GIJOE action figure.
I would also urge you to actually read my post in its entirety, as I mentioned in my experience as a kid, a lot of the girls we played with were as every bit as rough and tumble as we were, yet when it came to toy choices; they went for the “pink” aisle stuff.
I also mentioned how shows that had an actual strong female character like She-Ra seemed to resonate more with young boys and not girls, which sucks because she’s kind and fair, but is also very firm and is a force to be reckoned with.
Aside from She-Ra, as a kid I also got to watch some great Spider-Woman cartoons; which were every bit as good as the Spider-Man cartoons. The issue was that most girls I know just weren’t, and still aren't interested in such characters, and as I said, it sucked because here we have this awesome female character who can act as a gateway to attract more female fans, and still, many girls just weren’t interested.
The issue I’m trying to bring up to the forefront is that actual strong female characters are getting ignored by their target audience while characters like Bella from Twilight is hogging all the attention.
It’s what I like about anime; I’ve met just as many female fans as male fans, and like the male fans, there’s common shows I share in terms of enjoyment like them. What’s even cooler are some of the female fans who actually like Queen’s Blade or High School DxD. The bottom line is that I treat female fans the same way I do male fans, I’ve met some great people who share my enthusiasm for anime, both male and female, but I’ve also met some real jerks, once again, both male and female. Yeah, no, I really fail to comprehend how someone can take issues with women in the fandom. For those guys who usually take issue with women in their little club; they’re usually assholes to everyone anyways.
I agree with a lot with what Riles is saying here, it’s just another day, and I think it’s silly there needs to be a reminder to treat a group of people special just because of their gender. It would be as silly if we did the same thing on International Men’s Day. If you’re fun to talk to and respectful; I will revisit that courtesy back regardless of your gender, sexual orientation or racial ethnicity. If you’re an asshole; I’m going to treat you as such regardless of your gender, sexual orientation or racial ethnicity. The bottom line is people have to earn respect; it is not given unconditionally.
Lastly, you know, since this does tie into the topic at hand I think everyone here should go watch Don Jon (spoilers alert); I just finished watching it and it does a great job of how media influences expectations of both genders. The male protagonist is a porn addict and as a result sees women that way; the movie goes into great detail about how he loves his “things.” He treats women the same way, which is his character flaw; he finds internet porn more satisfying than actual intercourse with a woman.
Scarlett Johansen’s character (Barbara) is exactly the same; she objectifies Jon from the messages she gets from romance movies where a perfect man comes in and “saves” the girl and will absolutely devote himself to her; he’s perfect in every way. She expects that from Jon.
One scene that stood out was when they were at a store, and he told her he was going to get some Swiffer pads and told her he likes cleaning is apartment (it’s shown he has a touch of OCD) she said no, men shouldn’t clean.
Near the end, Jon’s sister (who has no other lines in the movie, for this reason) tells him that Barbara doesn’t care about Jon; she just wants a guy that will do what she tells him to. What I liked about this movie was how it showed everything as a two way street, it was a well performed, intelligently written somewhat cynical satire on how weak minded people internalize media perceptions and allow them to dictate how they live.
I'm just gonna leave this here: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/8530-Pink-Is-Not-The-Problem
I don’t agree with everything said on this video, but it did a better job of talking about the matter.
Getting back to what I said earlier, I’m all for International Women’s Day; but I’m also for International Men’s Day in November. It should be noted though, that each month carries a more significant day for me; Remembrance Day for November and my Mother’s Birthday for March.
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I agree that needing a day is a sad tribute to the sacrifices that women have gone through over the years.
I watched My Mother raise 4 kids on her own starting age ranging 6, 3, 2 and 5 months after gaining the courage to leave an abusive, non working, alcoholic. husband. That woman worked 3 jobs and once all kids were in school started going to school herself and had a Masters by the time the last one graduated High School.
I watched my Sister bounce back from sexual child abuse from a mistake in my mothers judgement with another man after the first divorce ( she thought she had found a good provider and decent man finally) after graduating High School, My sister served 4 tours in Iraq and the surrounding areas, came back alive ( when so many haven't) and got her Masters in Child Education and She has been a school teacher ever since.
I was a Bounty Hunter for 7 years and I can tell you right now I had to track down a hell of a lot more Worthless males than females and we are talking close to 1500 fugitives in that 7 years.
I'm also a Father of a intelligent, strong, very capable just turned 8 years old yesterday, Daughter who by the time she was 6 had already peaked mountains of over 10,000 ft and explored miles of caves alongside her Brother who is 5 years older than her.
I'll be happy to have words with anyone who does not treat a Woman as an Equal or encourages her to be better than what society has wrongfully labled "the weaker sex".
Of course the Next time someone says women are weaker let them stand next to a woman and let both get kicked in the crotch and see who is still standing.
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I was a Bounty Hunter for 7 years and I can tell you right now I had to track down a hell of a lot more Worthless males than females and we are talking close to 1500 fugitives in that 7 years.
I would advise you to not allow this experience to taint your outlook on men in general; misandry is more prevalent than people think and I've grown quite tired of how it is denied or even encouraged in mainstream circles the same way misogyny is in certain places. Of course, people who make misogynistic statements are usually quickly called out; rightly so too; I just hope that same logic is applied to misandristic statements.
I'm going to be honest, I've had some pretty terrifying experiences with the so called "fairer sex" that I have talked to some people here about, and I have made it a point to understand that most women are not like the ones I have had negative experiences with.
If you feel like discussing it with me in a PM, I'd be willing to share my experiences with you, just so that you can see as I have, that women have the capacity to be just as vile and cruel as men can.
You see, I look at women equally to men; I know they can do a lot of the same jobs, pursue the same goals and be of great help just as men are; but like men, I also know they can do terrible things as well.
I'll be happy to have words with anyone who does not treat a Woman as an Equal or encourages her to be better than what society has wrongfully labled "the weaker sex".
I'll be more than happy to have words with people who treat anyone unfairly because of their gender, sexual orientation or racial ethnicity. That includes people talking crap about men as well.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/8530-Pink-Is-Not-The-Problem
Now I want to talk about one issue in particular with this video; the claim is made that evil seems to be aligned with femininity, and we're given a barrage of cherry picked male characters that possess feminine traits.
I take no issue with those villains, however, the most memorable, terrifying, menacing or evil villains represent the worst of masculinity. When I look at villains from movies, like Lizard from the Amazing Spiderman, or, even how Electro (Max Dillion) from The Amazing Spiderman 2 is looking so far, Ra's Al Ghul From Batman Begins, Joker from Dark Knight, any villain from Indiana Jones, The Emperor From Star Wars or perhaps the most terrifying; Anton from No Country For Old Men; this is only but a small handful of many villains that are very masculine which leads me to know that media is not intentionally going out of its way to portray femininity as "evil."
I haven't even gotten to anime yet with shows like Fullmetal Alchemist and Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood (which has great male and female villains & heroes), Fate/Zero, Baccano, GunGrave, Tenjho Tenge or Revolutionary Girl Utena to name a few with some very masculine villains.
This is what bothers me about these Politically Correct/Feminist ideals that are prevalent in Geek Culture these days; they're looking for misogyny where it doesn't even exist to begin with.
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@Neon: You are just as guilty of letting your experiences "taint your outlook". as anyone else.
OK days over, thread closed.
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