Best 2017 Character Tournament Men's Round 1 Match 16



  • Shoto Todoroki, My Hero Academia
    vs.
    Yami Sukehiro, Black Clover

    You must post your vote, as well as the current score after taking your vote into account. Please note clearly who you are voting for, either by making a comment or by highlighting your vote in the score tally. You may only vote once, and once you post you cannot change your vote. The first to 10 points or the highest score after 24 hours wins.



  • Shoto Todoroki - 1
    Yami Sukehiro - 0

    In terms of character development, Shoto got a lot more last year.



  • Shoto Todoroki - 2
    Yami Sukehiro - 0

    It's my boy Todoroki!

    alt text

    He got so much development this season and the episode "Shoto Todoroki: Origin" is one if, if not my favorite, episodes of the entire year.



  • Shoto Todoroki - 3
    Yami Sukehiro - 0



  • Shoto Todoroki - 3
    Yami Sukehiro - 1

    TODOROKI'S OVER-RATED AND OVER-SATURATED.

    THERE. I SAID IT. >:(



  • You seem jealous for some reason.

    Shoto Todoroki - 4
    Yami Sukehiro - 1



  • Shoto Todoroki - 5
    Yami Sukehiro - 1



  • Shoto Todoroki - 6
    Yami Sukehiro - 1



  • @SpacemanHardy said in Best 2017 Character Tournament Men's Round 1 Match 16:

    Shoto Todoroki - 3
    Yami Sukehiro - 1

    TODOROKI'S OVER-RATED AND OVER-SATURATED.

    THERE. I SAID IT. >:(

    Shoto Todoroki - 6
    Yami Sukehiro - 2

    I have to agree. May be a different story if he could actually get over the idea of "his" flames being "his dad's", but right now, he doesn't even know who he is. For what the show is, it seems that My Hero Academia is consistently leaving characters with unresolved "issues". I may be forgetting somebody, but I think Deku is probably the only character in the series that's actually making any headway in regards to fixing any issues. Everybody else just keeps going back to the same problem after appearing to finally outgrow their hang-ups.

    Todoroki is actually the worst about this because every time he uses his fire, he immediately goes back to "daddy did something terrible, so I should completely refuse who I am." He needs to get over himself.



  • @pleco_breeder said in Best 2017 Character Tournament Men's Round 1 Match 16:

    I have to agree. May be a different story if he could actually get over the idea of "his" flames being "his dad's", but right now, he doesn't even know who he is. For what the show is, it seems that My Hero Academia is consistently leaving characters with unresolved "issues". I may be forgetting somebody, but I think Deku is probably the only character in the series that's actually making any headway in regards to fixing any issues. Everybody else just keeps going back to the same problem after appearing to finally outgrow their hang-ups.

    Todoroki is actually the worst about this because every time he uses his fire, he immediately goes back to "daddy did something terrible, so I should completely refuse who I am." He needs to get over himself.

    K folks, heads up, season 2 spoilers here.

    I don't really understand this thinking at all. If just the tournament arc had been released, then I could understand as Todoroki did back slide during his fight with Bakugo, but I also feel it would have been weird to have literally a lifetime of trauma and resentment undone by a single heartfelt fight/speech/debate with a guy he didn't really know all that well (Even though it was something that impacted him intensely, something the person believed in so strongly that he permanently disfigured his hand).

    It would have been unrealistically fast, and I liked how the shout of encouragement from Izuku in the stands was enough to get him to try, to light his flame, but he in the end, slid back in to the swirls of doubt and lacking self confidence. That's human nature, we don't just overcome something, especially as severe as the trauma that Todoroki has endured literally from the moment his quirk showed itself at roughly age 5. Besides, his issues did not stem purely from his father, but also from the overwhelming guilt he felt from not being able to save his mother, from the abuse she endured at his Father's hand. Something that, in a misplaced sense of guilt, felt was his fault because his Father kept her around to create him.

    The 1v1 matches happen over the course of a day, if my understanding is right, so of course that one day wouldn't have time to truly sink in. When Todoroki really gets the chance to change and grow, that is when he is able to talk to his Mother, to earn the "forgiveness" he feels he needs. When he is able to finally visit her, that is truly when things start to change.

    That was the WHOLE POINT of him choosing the Endeavor agency for his internship. That was him finally able to rationalize that he had access to the Number 2 hero, that if he wants to get better and change himself, he needed to take advantage of every opportunity that presented itself. That was the biggest, and most significant step in his growth and showing that he wasn't the same person as when we started Season 2. Can you imagine Todoroki from the festival, doing everything possible in his power to deny his Father and his lineage, doing this?

    alt text

    The kid that looks like this after talking to his dad? No, because it straight up would not have happened.

    We get to see the fruits of this self work and acceptance through his fight with Stain. He recognizes the danger Stain poses and he does not hesitate, even for a second before using his flames.

    alt text

    We got to see the verbal acceptance through his talk with his mother at the hospital, and his father in Endeavor's office, but this is the true thing that shows us that Todoroki has changed and grown. He's a different person then he was and stronger for it as he's finally accepting Deku's words from their fight.

    "It's yours! Your quirk, not his!"

    I just don't really see how anyone could argue that Todoroki hasn't grown or changed. Or even Bakugo, who has shown ENORMOUS change. I mean, would the Bakugo of the first season, even against All Might, truly team up with Deku of all people? Of course, I have also read ahead in the manga and I see just how much Bakugo has changed, so that's part of why I am so insistent on this.



  • @emdier Using spoiler tag here because I can't be as vague about the series and still provide an answer. I haven't read the manga though, so this may seem a bit of an old answer.

    In episode 22, Todoroki's last appearance of the second season, he does use the fire side. However, he still seems to be hesitant about it. I say this because it only seemed to be coerced by the fact that the metal in the bandages HAD to be heated to return to original shape. It wasn't as if he were using the power as a basic utility during the battle. It was literally ONLY used because it would be necessary in order to win. After having said that, I do feel that the reason that it became a necessity was him wanting to help Momo with her self confidence issues. The realization that she had stopped behaving as a potential leader seemed to have hit on a nerve with him, and the mention of the cavalry battle made me feel like Todoroki may have felt a bit responsible for that. I do have to give him credit for wanting to bolster the confidence of his partner when she was obviously feeling a bit mentally weak at the time.

    As for Bakugo, even though he's not a part of the voting, he still hadn't improved as of the final exam. I don't know about anything after that. My impression of him is that he never really did do much as far as teamwork. The plan changed only slightly from "I'll beat the crap out of All Might without you" to "I'll beat the crap out of All Might while you run away". There were only 2 times in the exam he displayed any actual teamwork. The first was when Midoriya used one of the gauntlets to get a powerful attack on All Might, but that was only triggered by his realization that it was going to require a full-on attack in order to stand any chance of even slowing down All Might. The actual plan still never changed from "Run away nerd, I've got this" The second, and the only time he actually showed any initiative at winning (given that he'd already realized that All Might was more powerful than he was even remotely capable of handling) was when he THREW Midoriya toward the gate while All Might was still airborne from his attack. Even as he was being CRUSHED by All Might, and quickly becoming unconscious, his dialogue never indicated that he was hoping for Midoriya to finish the exam by getting through the gate. It was still focused on beating All Might. The exam never became teamwork as much as just "you do your thing and I'll do mine in hopes that one of us can get the job done". In all honesty, even on Deku's part, the only actual time when they had even a slightly similar goal was when Deku went back to punch All Might and rescue Bakugo. However, as All Might pointed out afterward, that was more about Midoriya being himself and having to rescue everyone whether they wanted it or not. It wasn't that he had decided that there was any advantage to Bakugo's idea on the matter. It was that his nature meant that he had to go back for him before going through the gate.

    After having typed all of that, I'm curious if anyone here has access to an image with Bakugo's name printed from the original manga. I just realized there are a couple of different/potentially interesting ways the name could be read, but have to see the kanji in order to know if any of them were the actual intent of the author.



  • @pleco_breeder Putting this in spoiler tags since this is going off on a tangent

    Here's Katsuki's full name in kanji:爆豪勝己

    Also, from the series' wiki, the first kanji is taken from the Japanese for "explosion", while the third kanji is from "katsu," meaning to win, likely a reference to him wanting to be number 1.

    Current score:

    Shoto Todoroki - 6
    Yami Sukehiro - 2



  • Didn't mean to get off track, but you do have to admit that discussing the characters is one of the more interesting parts of these tournaments. Anyway, I'll continue with using the spoiler tag for the actual translation of Bakugo Katsuki in order to save space on the thread.

    爆豪勝己 The first kanji is read as baku. In this instance, the word means a sudden change, and could be anything from an audience suddenly starting laughing/applauding to an explosion. It's dependent upon what it's paired up with. In this case, I've never seen that mix of radicals in a kanji to be 100% sure. I was honestly expecting this word to be 爆轟 which reads as "bakugou" and means detonation or the noun form of explosion. Can't find the second kanji in any of my dictionaries to be sure how to read it either, but it is VERY similar to a kanji which means want to fight. If it's an adaptation, it could be a reference to his "short fuse".
    The third kanji is definitely the same used in katsu (jishokei of kachimasu, which means to win), but is actually only the "ka" portion of the name. The tsu is just a conjugation normally used to indicate ownership in compound words, and therefore used in A LOT of kanji. The real surprise of this entire name is the final kanji, and I'm REALLY surprised that this isn't plastered all over the forums and fan sites. The ONLY!!! way that 己 is ever used in a way that can be read as ki (required character to finish the name katsuki) is in instances concerning ones self. In this case, because of the kanji and method of conjugation used, katsuki would equate to a noun form of "personal victory", and wouldn't have anything to do with a win against anything other than his own goals.
    Don't know anything about how the story is going to play out long-term, but the full name could be taken (assuming that I'm correct about the second kanji adaptation) to mean overcoming his temper. In his case, that would actually be a bigger victory than beating All Might.

    @GalaxyCrisis said in Best 2017 Character Tournament Men's Round 1 Match 16:

    @pleco_breeder Putting this in spoiler tags since this is going off on a tangent

    Here's Katsuki's full name in kanji:爆豪勝己

    Also, from the series' wiki, the first kanji is taken from the Japanese for "explosion", while the third kanji is from "katsu," meaning to win, likely a reference to him wanting to be number 1.

    Current score:

    Shoto Todoroki - 6
    Yami Sukehiro - 2



  • Shoto Todoroki - 6
    Yami Sukehiro - 3



  • Shoto Todoroki - 7
    Yami Sukehiro - 3


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