Don't know what show you saw but Tabitha St Germain did a incredible job as Shana and many believe she did better then Rie Kugimiya did. The one thing people complain about is that Shana sounds very different compared to the Japanese but that doesn't mean bad. The English version is a completely different take that works just as well(In my opinion better because she doesn't sound like a child and instead sounds like a real person with real issues in her life). While I would 100% agree with you that Carrie Savage could do the character well I would not want to see that happen. Reason for this is I found it refreshing that Shana didn't sound like a child and instead sounded older then she looked. However if Carrie Savage was cast she would end up being told to play Shana like she did Rihoko in Witchblade and I really would not like that(Despite her performance in Witchblade being incredible along with many of the other awesome things she has done like Rumbling Hearts) Again I and many others liked the performance Tabitha St Germain did for Shana and a good reason for it is because it's different. It still stays true to the character without trying to sound exactly like the Japanese and very few dubs can pull that off.
The rest of the cast can be debated a bit more heavily as there were some characters that didn't do all that well(although many of them are very minor characters) and others that were mis cast however by and large the dub was very very solid. I would not say it's oceans best dub(That honor would go to Black Lagoon) but it's easily a excellent one. I mean fans will say when they don't like a dub(no one complained about the re dub of Initial D for example as it was terrible) but pretty much every fan of Shana wants the original cast back and there is a solid reason for that. I do think that if they had to Funi could make a incredible dub for Shana but I doubt they would be able to capture that certain something the original did.
EDIT: In regards to the way Wilhelmina talked. She had a very odd way of talking in Japanese that would not translate if done directly so instead they added on the word Indeed quite often to make it seem as though she had a odd way of talking. Some people hated this some loved it. I thought it was entertaining but I can see if it annoyed you.
As for the spell and pronouncing of the name. This can easily be linked to the Japanese. As many know in Spice and Wolf they called Holo Horo even though the name is spelled and said with L's and no R's(many fans didn't know this and complained about it being Holo in the dub despite it being the way it's supposed to be said) There was also the famous thing about Alucard from Hellsing in which the Japanese studio insisted about Arucard when the name is obviously supposed to be Draclua spelled backwards. The issue regarding the name could have easily been something similar in Shana. While I don't know for sure that's the case the fact that we are talking about R and L here is a very good indication that this was the case and the Japanese made the dub happen the way it did.(This was the case with Hellsings subs. The Japanese made them put the Arucard in the subs while allowing them to say Alucard in the dub)
I strongly disagree with your assessment of Tabitha. I feel she missed the mark. She didn't fully capture the personality... just part of it. She didn't really nail it on any account. It was just an acceptable job. I'm not saying she did POORLY, but her performance was nothing to write home about. It certainly could have been better.
Plus Rie made Shana sound like a child because Shana IS a child. She's a trained warrior, which brings somewhat of a maturity to her, but she also has her moments where she's very much immature. I beleive her youthful appearance is more than just an appearance... she really is likely very young.
Now I do believe she was the best choice as far as what Ocean has and I don't disagree with Ocean casting her as Shana. But if we had our options opened to more VAs from other places than just Canada, I would not agree with her voicing Shana, if that makes sense.
It does seem that multiple people are saying that most fans of the show think Tabitha did a stellar job as Shana... I'm wondering how many really do feel this way. It's just something that's baffling to me and I'm the kind of person that usually DEFENDS English voicing jobs. Not that I'm attacking this one necessarily... I'm just saying that I felt it could be better and after hearing Tabitha's take, I'd welcome the opportunity for someone else to try and do better. It was a passable dub all-and-all, but I wouldn't call it stellar and thus, I wouldn't mind a new casting in an attempt to actually make it stellar.
Also, let me clarify my Wilhelmina speech comment. She has an speach quirk in Japan. Even before watching the dub, I assumed a proper localization effort would make her end ever line in "indeed" to recapture the feel. Ocean did NOT do this. Sure, she said "indeed" fairly often, but it was at random places in the sentence and not used as frequently as the Japanese equivillant was. This to me was doing it wrong. They had the right idea, but they messed it up. They tried to make her speaking more natural, ignoring the fact that a speach quirk is supposed to sound unnatural. That's why it's a quirk. If further script writing fixes this, I'll be completely satisfied with Wilhelmina. That was the only thing that was slightly off, but it still kinda bothered me because she lost some of her initial charm. Call it nit-picky if you want.
I still can't excuse Ocean for messing up the spelling of the name either. Yes, there's an R/L confusion in Japan, but "Wilhelmina" is an actual name and "Wirhelmina" is not. What makes more sense to go with when translating? Also, "Wilhelmina" just sounds better. Sometimes you have to go based off sound. This might also be part of why FUNimation made the choice they did with Spice and Wolf. "Horo" sounds like someone who sleeps around, if you catch my drift, so they went with "Holo". Holo might be the true intention, but even if it wasn't, it sounds better.
Crazy Li, you're welcome to your opinion, but I personally couldn't disagree more.
Shana was one of the few series I started watching fansubbed before I dropped fansubs altogether. I liked it quite a bit but I found some of the characters' voices to be plain pathetic in the Japanese. I can praise the performances left and right but obviously you didn't like them like I did. I can try to explain why I liked them as much as I did but you probably won't agree with me.
So instead, I'm just going to say that I'm another vote to keep the original English dub cast and that I would in fact flat-out refuse to buy Shana with a different cast, especially if they didn't get back the same VAs for Shana, Wirhelmina, Margery, Hecate, Yuji and Alastor. I frankly thought that the cast did a fantastic job and that Shana was in fact the best dubbed release Geneon had before they went kaput.
My opinion of the Japanese was that it was the mediocre dub. Especially Margery's VA who was at her worst when chanting elegies. Of all the performances, I must attack that one specifically because it just sounded horrible to me in Japanese. English version with Janyse Jaud was awesome. (Oddly there are a number of roles I like Hitomi Nabatame in but she just sounded bad to me in this role.)
Anyway, I personally loved the English dub of Shana and I would be very pissed if Funimation released the series without bringing back the English cast. (Hey, do a package deal with Black Lagoon!)
Frankly if I were rich and therefore could blow hundreds of thousands for fun, I'd pay for the English dub to be produced with the same exact casting. (And while I was at it, I'd py for Ikki-Tousen DD and GG to get the original English cast back. No I'm not still bitter about that, why do you ask?)
I loved the English dub for Shana. You didn't. Neither of us is right or wrong.
However, your opinion isn't one I've seen often. Whether that means there are more or less people who share it than my own view isn't something we'll decide in this thread. I hope that it does cause you to consider the rest of us though and perhaps add your own support to Funimation getting back Ocean for any further English dubbing, if only because it would make many of your fellow fans happy.
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English dubs rule! Spread the love, raise the profit, get more anime.
Nipa! Back on the forums after a computer crash! Nipa!
As Maiku has already said, Tabitha's Shana was a different interpretation of the character that differed quite a bit from the original. Doesn't make it bad; that's just what voice actors do. As one myself, I can safely say that you learn to take what you can from the original, but in the end what you'll come up with will be inevitability different from theirs.
IMO I thought Tabitha's Shana was good, all things considered. She certainly had a more mature tone and adult-oriented personality about her; certainly different from Rie Kugimiya's Shana. Some have made the argument that this sounds better in that she didn't sound as much like a child. Well, no matter how you slice it, the character of Shanais a child, so let's not argue about semantics.
When all is said and done, I really wouldn't say that either performance really outshines the other.
Okay, I'll admit my criticisms may have been a bit nit-picky. I just had really high expectations for the show and they weren't quite met.
I don't want it to sound like I dislike Tabitha St. Germain, because I don't. I really do like her and think she has a lot of talent. I also do think she was a good choice for Shana. I was glad to see her cast for the role initially. I don't blame her for my disappointment with what I heard either. I blame the direction she was given. I KNOW she has the capacity to voice Shana in the same style that she was done in Japanese. However Ocean decided to tell her not to and took their own creative liberties with it. Apparently it was a gamble that paid off, because a lot of people seemed to like it. I wasn't totally satisfied. I would have liked her to capture Shana's childish moments better than she did. Anime is a very exaggerated media, but there was no exaggeration in the acting here.
I would like to thank Ryan Ashlight for repeating my statement of fact that Shana is a child... and that's why I wasn't totally satisfied with the more adult-sounding performance here. Though I know Tabitha can sound childish if she wants to, so once again, it's not like there's a lack of talent here.
I also don't want anyone to think I'm calling Tabitha's Shana BAD. She did a good job... just not what I expected and I wouldn't mind hearing a different take on it (heck even she can do the different take if she wants... it doesn't matter to me). it's much more important to make the majority of fans happy and not worry about a single fan (me) who wouldn't be broken up by the original cast anyway.
I also may have been overly harsh in previous rants. I don't think Shana was a bad dub. I'll readily admit that it was one of the best Ocean dubs I've heard. Though admittedly, most Ocean dubs I hear, I don't like very much, but yeah...
And considering the comments I'm hearing, I actually DO hope FUNimation gets the original cast back now since some people won't buy it if they don't. I will buy it either way, so it's not a big deal to me. Tabitha as Shana isn't a deal-breaker. I liked the performances overall... Shana, Yuji, Wilhelmina, Alastor are a few that stand out. Margery, I'm torn on, though. There was something odd about her voice... it sounded kind of forced to me, so it was really strange to listen to her speak. On one hand it was right, but at the same time, it felt wrong. That probably doesn't make any sense to anyone, but that's how it felt. Either way, she's not a character I care enough about to worry about how she's voiced. And her book (Marcocious, was it?) was extremely well-done to note.
So in summary, I don't hate the original dub. I feel it was acceptable and I would be willing to buy and watch it. But I don't think it was an EXCELLENT dub and I don't think the key roles were done stellar... but I don't think any were bad either. It kept a fairly consistent level of quality that allowed the show to be enjoyable to watch. If fact I would actually like it if FUNimation got the same people from Shana to re-dub The Familiar of Zero. Since in Japan, both shows used the same people and the original dub of Zero was pretty poorly done (I do hope people can at least agree with me on THAT one). I think I would like to see Tabitha St. Germain voice Luise and the guy who did Yuji in Shana voice Saito.
I really hope that Funimation will release The Shakugan no Shana properties that they own. I hope that they will re-release the First Season of Shakugan no Shana again and release the Second Season and the movie and the OAV and I hope that they will license the final season of Shakugan no Shana which is coming out in Japan in the Fall so I'm praying that they do not drop the licence for their Shakugan no Shana properties because they dropped their licenses for Higurashi and the Familar of Zero.
I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped this too like with Higurashi and ZnT. Then it looks like we will have to beg at Sentai's feet once more to save the day yet again. *rolls eyes*
@Crazy Li
Don't know what show you saw but Tabitha St Germain did a incredible job as Shana and many believe she did better then Rie Kugimiya did. The one thing people complain about is that Shana sounds very different compared to the Japanese but that doesn't mean bad. The English version is a completely different take that works just as well(In my opinion better because she doesn't sound like a child and instead sounds like a real person with real issues in her life). While I would 100% agree with you that Carrie Savage could do the character well I would not want to see that happen. Reason for this is I found it refreshing that Shana didn't sound like a child and instead sounded older then she looked. However if Carrie Savage was cast she would end up being told to play Shana like she did Rihoko in Witchblade and I really would not like that(Despite her performance in Witchblade being incredible along with many of the other awesome things she has done like Rumbling Hearts) Again I and many others liked the performance Tabitha St Germain did for Shana and a good reason for it is because it's different. It still stays true to the character without trying to sound exactly like the Japanese and very few dubs can pull that off.
The rest of the cast can be debated a bit more heavily as there were some characters that didn't do all that well(although many of them are very minor characters) and others that were mis cast however by and large the dub was very very solid. I would not say it's oceans best dub(That honor would go to Black Lagoon) but it's easily a excellent one. I mean fans will say when they don't like a dub(no one complained about the re dub of Initial D for example as it was terrible) but pretty much every fan of Shana wants the original cast back and there is a solid reason for that. I do think that if they had to Funi could make a incredible dub for Shana but I doubt they would be able to capture that certain something the original did.
EDIT: In regards to the way Wilhelmina talked. She had a very odd way of talking in Japanese that would not translate if done directly so instead they added on the word Indeed quite often to make it seem as though she had a odd way of talking. Some people hated this some loved it. I thought it was entertaining but I can see if it annoyed you.
As for the spell and pronouncing of the name. This can easily be linked to the Japanese. As many know in Spice and Wolf they called Holo Horo even though the name is spelled and said with L's and no R's(many fans didn't know this and complained about it being Holo in the dub despite it being the way it's supposed to be said) There was also the famous thing about Alucard from Hellsing in which the Japanese studio insisted about Arucard when the name is obviously supposed to be Draclua spelled backwards. The issue regarding the name could have easily been something similar in Shana. While I don't know for sure that's the case the fact that we are talking about R and L here is a very good indication that this was the case and the Japanese made the dub happen the way it did.(This was the case with Hellsings subs. The Japanese made them put the Arucard in the subs while allowing them to say Alucard in the dub)
I strongly disagree with your assessment of Tabitha. I feel she missed the mark. She didn't fully capture the personality... just part of it. She didn't really nail it on any account. It was just an acceptable job. I'm not saying she did POORLY, but her performance was nothing to write home about. It certainly could have been better.
Plus Rie made Shana sound like a child because Shana IS a child. She's a trained warrior, which brings somewhat of a maturity to her, but she also has her moments where she's very much immature. I beleive her youthful appearance is more than just an appearance... she really is likely very young.
Now I do believe she was the best choice as far as what Ocean has and I don't disagree with Ocean casting her as Shana. But if we had our options opened to more VAs from other places than just Canada, I would not agree with her voicing Shana, if that makes sense.
It does seem that multiple people are saying that most fans of the show think Tabitha did a stellar job as Shana... I'm wondering how many really do feel this way. It's just something that's baffling to me and I'm the kind of person that usually DEFENDS English voicing jobs. Not that I'm attacking this one necessarily... I'm just saying that I felt it could be better and after hearing Tabitha's take, I'd welcome the opportunity for someone else to try and do better. It was a passable dub all-and-all, but I wouldn't call it stellar and thus, I wouldn't mind a new casting in an attempt to actually make it stellar.
Also, let me clarify my Wilhelmina speech comment. She has an speach quirk in Japan. Even before watching the dub, I assumed a proper localization effort would make her end ever line in "indeed" to recapture the feel. Ocean did NOT do this. Sure, she said "indeed" fairly often, but it was at random places in the sentence and not used as frequently as the Japanese equivillant was. This to me was doing it wrong. They had the right idea, but they messed it up. They tried to make her speaking more natural, ignoring the fact that a speach quirk is supposed to sound unnatural. That's why it's a quirk. If further script writing fixes this, I'll be completely satisfied with Wilhelmina. That was the only thing that was slightly off, but it still kinda bothered me because she lost some of her initial charm. Call it nit-picky if you want.
I still can't excuse Ocean for messing up the spelling of the name either. Yes, there's an R/L confusion in Japan, but "Wilhelmina" is an actual name and "Wirhelmina" is not. What makes more sense to go with when translating? Also, "Wilhelmina" just sounds better. Sometimes you have to go based off sound. This might also be part of why FUNimation made the choice they did with Spice and Wolf. "Horo" sounds like someone who sleeps around, if you catch my drift, so they went with "Holo". Holo might be the true intention, but even if it wasn't, it sounds better.
Crazy Li, you're welcome to your opinion, but I personally couldn't disagree more.
Shana was one of the few series I started watching fansubbed before I dropped fansubs altogether. I liked it quite a bit but I found some of the characters' voices to be plain pathetic in the Japanese. I can praise the performances left and right but obviously you didn't like them like I did. I can try to explain why I liked them as much as I did but you probably won't agree with me.
So instead, I'm just going to say that I'm another vote to keep the original English dub cast and that I would in fact flat-out refuse to buy Shana with a different cast, especially if they didn't get back the same VAs for Shana, Wirhelmina, Margery, Hecate, Yuji and Alastor. I frankly thought that the cast did a fantastic job and that Shana was in fact the best dubbed release Geneon had before they went kaput.
My opinion of the Japanese was that it was the mediocre dub. Especially Margery's VA who was at her worst when chanting elegies. Of all the performances, I must attack that one specifically because it just sounded horrible to me in Japanese. English version with Janyse Jaud was awesome. (Oddly there are a number of roles I like Hitomi Nabatame in but she just sounded bad to me in this role.)
Anyway, I personally loved the English dub of Shana and I would be very pissed if Funimation released the series without bringing back the English cast. (Hey, do a package deal with Black Lagoon!)
Frankly if I were rich and therefore could blow hundreds of thousands for fun, I'd pay for the English dub to be produced with the same exact casting. (And while I was at it, I'd py for Ikki-Tousen DD and GG to get the original English cast back. No I'm not still bitter about that, why do you ask?)
I loved the English dub for Shana. You didn't. Neither of us is right or wrong.
However, your opinion isn't one I've seen often. Whether that means there are more or less people who share it than my own view isn't something we'll decide in this thread. I hope that it does cause you to consider the rest of us though and perhaps add your own support to Funimation getting back Ocean for any further English dubbing, if only because it would make many of your fellow fans happy.
English dubs rule! Spread the love, raise the profit, get more anime.
Nipa! Back on the forums after a computer crash! Nipa!
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Think I'll throw in my two cents here.
As Maiku has already said, Tabitha's Shana was a different interpretation of the character that differed quite a bit from the original. Doesn't make it bad; that's just what voice actors do. As one myself, I can safely say that you learn to take what you can from the original, but in the end what you'll come up with will be inevitability different from theirs.
IMO I thought Tabitha's Shana was good, all things considered. She certainly had a more mature tone and adult-oriented personality about her; certainly different from Rie Kugimiya's Shana. Some have made the argument that this sounds better in that she didn't sound as much like a child. Well, no matter how you slice it, the character of Shana is a child, so let's not argue about semantics.
When all is said and done, I really wouldn't say that either performance really outshines the other.
Okay, I'll admit my criticisms may have been a bit nit-picky. I just had really high expectations for the show and they weren't quite met.
I don't want it to sound like I dislike Tabitha St. Germain, because I don't. I really do like her and think she has a lot of talent. I also do think she was a good choice for Shana. I was glad to see her cast for the role initially. I don't blame her for my disappointment with what I heard either. I blame the direction she was given. I KNOW she has the capacity to voice Shana in the same style that she was done in Japanese. However Ocean decided to tell her not to and took their own creative liberties with it. Apparently it was a gamble that paid off, because a lot of people seemed to like it. I wasn't totally satisfied. I would have liked her to capture Shana's childish moments better than she did. Anime is a very exaggerated media, but there was no exaggeration in the acting here.
I would like to thank Ryan Ashlight for repeating my statement of fact that Shana is a child... and that's why I wasn't totally satisfied with the more adult-sounding performance here. Though I know Tabitha can sound childish if she wants to, so once again, it's not like there's a lack of talent here.
I also don't want anyone to think I'm calling Tabitha's Shana BAD. She did a good job... just not what I expected and I wouldn't mind hearing a different take on it (heck even she can do the different take if she wants... it doesn't matter to me). it's much more important to make the majority of fans happy and not worry about a single fan (me) who wouldn't be broken up by the original cast anyway.
I also may have been overly harsh in previous rants. I don't think Shana was a bad dub. I'll readily admit that it was one of the best Ocean dubs I've heard. Though admittedly, most Ocean dubs I hear, I don't like very much, but yeah...
And considering the comments I'm hearing, I actually DO hope FUNimation gets the original cast back now since some people won't buy it if they don't. I will buy it either way, so it's not a big deal to me. Tabitha as Shana isn't a deal-breaker. I liked the performances overall... Shana, Yuji, Wilhelmina, Alastor are a few that stand out. Margery, I'm torn on, though. There was something odd about her voice... it sounded kind of forced to me, so it was really strange to listen to her speak. On one hand it was right, but at the same time, it felt wrong. That probably doesn't make any sense to anyone, but that's how it felt. Either way, she's not a character I care enough about to worry about how she's voiced. And her book (Marcocious, was it?) was extremely well-done to note.
So in summary, I don't hate the original dub. I feel it was acceptable and I would be willing to buy and watch it. But I don't think it was an EXCELLENT dub and I don't think the key roles were done stellar... but I don't think any were bad either. It kept a fairly consistent level of quality that allowed the show to be enjoyable to watch. If fact I would actually like it if FUNimation got the same people from Shana to re-dub The Familiar of Zero. Since in Japan, both shows used the same people and the original dub of Zero was pretty poorly done (I do hope people can at least agree with me on THAT one). I think I would like to see Tabitha St. Germain voice Luise and the guy who did Yuji in Shana voice Saito.
I hope this is released soon Shana II is way overdue!
Why all the log in Issues with this account?
I really hope that Funimation will release The Shakugan no Shana properties that they own. I hope that they will re-release the First Season of Shakugan no Shana again and release the Second Season and the movie and the OAV and I hope that they will license the final season of Shakugan no Shana which is coming out in Japan in the Fall so I'm praying that they do not drop the licence for their Shakugan no Shana properties because they dropped their licenses for Higurashi and the Familar of Zero.
I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped this too like with Higurashi and ZnT. Then it looks like we will have to beg at Sentai's feet once more to save the day yet again. *rolls eyes*
There's some money to be had in JC Staff anime. They just need to give it a try.
They have it. Just some leagal stuff holding them up was the last thing I heard.
I reject your reality and replace it with my own.