Sorry but this has been bothering me for sometime and I need to get it off my chest. Much like the title why is blu-ray adoption so poor in the US. Its been 7yrs now since the format came out and 6yrs since it won the standard. Set top boxes are cheap now virtually costing the same amount as dvd players did in 2005 (roughly $80-$150). Now I know Funi is the biggest backer of blu-ray for anime but its still what 2-4 out of 10 new anime that comes out is blu-ray. And the other companies 0-2 out of 15.
Its annoying as heck to know that its 2013 and all anime in japan gets a blu-ray release and air in HD and we in the west gets the short stick. A heck of a lot of people now-a-days own a HD TV and watching anime on dvd on a 32" HD Tv looks horrible. I personally hate buying dvds i avoid them. I only try to buy blu-rays. All my movies I own are blu-ray I stopped buying dvd of movies back in 2007. And because I go to numerous forums in the anime community many anime fans refuse anything less then HD standard.
I know companies are worried about sales but continuing a poor ratio between the two is only hurting you guys. It feels like you want to make streaming the more likely option but why stream when you can go download it through a fansub and own it? I'm for supporting and Funi is my favorite cause you really cater to the sub group (leaving in honorific white subs instead of that god aweful yellow and sometimes the original credits).
I only show my support to anime brought over in Blu-ray format. And with the declining sales of anime in the US with out being in your or another company's accounting department it looks plain as day that many anime fans are doing the same. Maybe its the reverse importing (though I don't really believe thats the case cause rightstuf, ebay and amazon don't really ship overseas. very few people do and when they do its expensive and plus the time delay between when we get the anime release vs when it came out in japan is at least a year to two years behind on 80% of the anime just doesn't really seem likely).
So buying a set top box is cheap and considering the playstation 3 crowd even if only 5-20% (thats 1.29 million - 5.16million) of ps3 owners watch anime thats still is a huge amount of potential customers and its been quite a long time since the format was release why does it feel like its still 2006 with anime on blu-ray in america?
You're (as in the whole anime industry in the US) losing customers by releasing mostly dvd versions and your hurting your blu-ray sales of anime that was earlier released on dvd because it takes a true collector to rebuy the anime again and now own two copies of that anime. I mean streaming is great to try before you buy but the customer isn't really getting what he/she expected since they streamed an HD quality and now the spent 40-60 on the dvd and watch it on their hd tv to realize it looks pixilated, you can see the compression and it only looks worse on the bigger HD tvs. So now they don't buy the dvd version your sales hurt and now you can't afford to release a blu-ray version or sales are horrible and you get the misconception that they didn't like the anime so why release the blu-ray version when sales said it was bad on dvd. and the few that were good on dvd you decide to release blu-ray version only to realise it didn't sell well so you think maybe not enough people own blu-ray players when it could just be most people aren't willing to buy the samething twice cause the economy is bad. when you could have just sold it as blu-ray and the people who support anime companies will be more willing to buy it cause it looks better then what they streamed and now they may have a choice of english or japanese instead of one or the other.
Anime did so well on dvd cause it was an extremely quick adaption introduced english and japanese audio tracks, subtitles tracks, better video and audio quality more episodes per disc then tape and better packaging and the industry quickly killed vhs within a year or so. the only thing different today is the poor adoption leading to declining sales. sorry for mentioning this again but fansub only release hd versions of the stuff because they know anime fans do not care for SD versions. And the industry is still mainly only supporting the SD stadnard to own. I'd rather spend 50-70 on the HD version of the anime. I love quality video. From the getgo I know that blu-ray was going to win the standard because for the most people people care about quality thats why HD tvs quickly replaced SD tvs. Its virtually impossible to buy an SD tv from a retailer and yet the anime industry thinks sd anime looks good on an hd tv. upscaling can only do so much through the set top boxes and ps3 but they still look horrible.
It pains me to see brand new anime that aired in japan in HD got an Blu-ray release as well and here we're stuck with dvds. In japan all anime is released on blu-ray some have dvd counter parts. I own a little over 100 anime series and about 90 of them are dvd I bought that back in 2005-2008 thats when I still owned a sdtv and I was buying anime like crazy. I love anime I love to support anime. But since 2009 I barely bought any why cause I own a ps3 I own an HD tv (my hd tv at the time i bought it was $425 32in hd tv are way cheaper now) and ithought it was a joke that anime was still largely released on dvd (now i think its pitiful and i can't understand why most of the anime i like to watch is dvd based). Since 2009 I have only bought blu-ray but most of the blu-rays that get released are the ones i have no interest in watching. And i get the feeling most anime fans are in the same boat as me. the dvd version of this anime cost way too much 40-60 for a dvd and for 13 episodes, thats too expensive 40-70 for a blu-ray for 13-26 episodes thats a deal.
I tihnk the fall/decline of anime in the west is not due to customers but due to the industry itself because its only became like this shortly after blu-ray won the standard. and the industry failed big time to adapt. its not from pirating its not from reverse importing. those are tiny blips on the radar cause fansubing has been around far longer then the industry itself. and from 1999-2007 nearly ten years of anime growing cause of dvd format catering to both sides the industry was able to bring them over easier. and now a new revolution has happened HD. and the format war caused major confusion allowing for streaming to come out ahead and you guys completely cut off the people who own anime buy releasing majority on dvd.
So my question is why is the industry in 2013 treating anime customers like its back in 2005? not a lot of people own sd stuff. we stream HD movies, we stream HD anime, we buy HD movies we watch shows that air in HD, we play games in HD, our cellphones are HD and yet our anime that we buy are still SD. nobody wants SD. SD is something we tolerate now-a-days. we get SD for cheap and yet SD anime is expensive while its HD equivalent is priced right. makes no sense and I can only see that as the reason why legal anime is dying.
Sorry for the wall of rant. I appreciate that you're trying and that you back it the most out of the rest but there is still major improvement that needs to be made. I hate buying digital. phyiscal copy for shows, movies should be the ownly exceptable form of ownership. streaming is fine for a try before you buy kinda thing. and plus a digital copy/streaming will never look as good as a blu-ray. why? simple. compression is the key 25-50gb per disc depending, 50gb disc holding 13 eps gives 3.85 gb per episode (or 20 eps for 2.5gb per ep) vs the 300mb streaming/digital copy theres no comparison. the blu-ray version will win everytime. And 1080p (blu-ray) vs 480p (dvd) again no contest.
Again sorry for the rant just makes no sense of why the anime industry in the west is shooting itself in the foot.
Mainly, it seems to be a combination of licenser fears, consumer ignorance and indifference.
Between the huge discrepancy in Japanese and American price points, and the sharing of a single Blu-ray region, there are understandable fears that Japanese consumers would choose to import a cheaper American release over the expensive domestic release. To counteract this, they require either an extended period of time between the Japanese and American release, or request a NA release be "crippled" in some way, such as locked subtitles with the original Japanese audio, or releasing it with only the English dub.
While you are obviously familiar with the Blu-ray format, that doesn't necessarily mean every other consumer has the same knowledge as you. Some may not know what equipment is required, even if they do, in fact, own a PS3, or be aware of the quality difference between the formats, and therefore settle for a DVD release as "good enough," even if a BD version is available at the same time, to save that $5-15 price difference.
Blu-ray is clearly a superior format to DVD, but with the rise in availability of streaming media and digital distribution, personal media ownership has fallen to very low levels.
At first I was going to write a longer reply, but EyeOfPain really summed up the hardware issue with two words : Good Enough.
As long as DVD is good enough most people won't be in any hurry to change their buying habits. I know as our family replaces or adds players we are buying Blu-Ray now and we are buying good HD TVs, again as we replace older equipment.
Eventually the Japanese Anime industry will figure out a way to survive with the 800lb Gorilla of the US Video market living in the same region with them.
It just is going to take time, nothing ever happens fast enough does it?
Mark Gosdin
eyeofpain: i appreciate the feedback and surprise someone read it through. its a daunting task. but heres my problem with that and the other guys: those arguments worked 3-5 yrs ago. ps commercial especial the it does everything line up and kevin butler commercials beated in time and time again that ps3 plays blu-rays. and we're already 1-3 yrs behind in anime then japan. some are even older some are newer. and as i pointed out its very unlikely for reverse importing. maybe japan is the one to blame but then the industry in the west is as well for not fighting back. none of the retailers in america ship overseas. so bestbuy, walmart, suncoast, fye, etc. it won't be happening. second online is also very slim. rightstuf (the biggest online seller of anime) doesn't ship overseas. ebay and amazon for the most part the sellers don't ship to overseas. and by the time we get said anime well the chances the japanese counterparts of lost sales is highly unlikely cause its been 1-3 yrs since their release. sales slows down big time after a yr. 3 yrs later next to none. if anything it would help the industry out. bringing in more sales. your product is now dead in your home market and now the overseas market just got it so sales are high overseas well now you have people buying it maybe again or what was rare to comebuy in their home market is now easily accessible in another market and finding the few people to ship it world wide just gain the west more sales and with that license more anime.
and the good enough argument i don't believe. blu-ray is neck and neck with dvd but thats also due that most of the time you buy the blu-ray you get the dvd and that counts for both. but why in late 90's to late mid 00(basically up to 07) when anime took off with dvd and held as a fast growing entertaiment but as soon as the formate war was over the anime industry went from growing back to declining and sooner rather then later will completely collapse. the anime scene is not the general public. and it shouldn't be treated as such. the only people in the anime scene that will think dvd is good enough are parents of young children that are just getting into it. teenagers and adult anime fans watch anime by either streaming hd eps from crunchy roll or downloading hd eps from fansubs. and these people who get the hd eps by either free or very cheap price per month have to shell out 40-60 on a dvd boxset. i don't think so.
to me all i see is that the industry is trying to cut corners to save money by using a medium that is beyond cheap to make and charge a crud load to buy. or if they went with the times and you know supported the new format the anime industry here may never have been in this much trouble. forcing people to buy and old out dated format that isn't good enough. have you ever watched a anime dvd on a 120hz 46" 1080p tv? it is unwatchable. subs are distorted and huge, the motion is to fast and desync happen, compression is obivous to the point i want to remove my glasses so i can't notice them (i have 20/400 vision so yeah).
its supply and demand the industry is ignoring the demand and only gives the wrong supply so sales plummit and they make too much and lose money. dvds are cheap enough to give out with blu-rays. most moviesi n the west are released like that now-a-days. and some anime are done like that as well.
but heres the thing and funi is at fault with this. they release a dvd and then a half a yr later or more releases a blu-ray version. this doesn't do any good what so ever and only causes mass confusion and consumer anger. i know this cause this has personally happen to me. sekirie first season. released on dvd (in japan aired as hd, blu-ray releases) and about a yr and a half later to 2 yrs a blu-ray version came out. that pissed me off. i spent 40 something dollars on a dvd and before i bought it i checked to see if a blu-ray release was going to happen no word what so ever. so now i wait and wait if i only see a dvd version of an anime because im not waisting my money on an inferior version again. and to this day im still juggling if i want to rebuy it on blu-ray but waiting on till it falls in price by a lot.
so because of that buisness model you lost sales of a dvd or you lose sales of a blu-ray and caused problems for your next product cause now if it just has a dvd release the sonsumer has no clue if a blu-ray version is following behind so they are going to wait it out hurting sales and ultimitly can leadto putting you out of buisness or going back to pre-dvd when anime was so scarce.
theres a lot of great anime that are getting released that i would like to buy but im not made out of money to be buying double copies of every anime. very few anime i will rebuy. if i already bought it on dvd i would need to say ok how good was it. is it worth another $40-$60? what kinda of extras?
love hina rebought that twice. why? reworked subtitles, less dvds encoded a little better. bought heroic age on dvd and blu-ray. why? cause it looked like crap on dvd for the 3d animation colors, subtitles, and sound. on the blu-ray far supior in all aspect. and only bought one more series you can count it sequels because i bought them too but they were on massive discount full metal panic, fumoffu, and tsr. why cause its one of my favorite shows and i had to have the better version. and besides their version is much better then adv's. chobits is my last one i rebought. again cause its one of my favorite animes of all time and owening a much better version is a must. theres a couple more im planning on rebuying but im only doing rebuys for the ones that i thought completely sucked on dvd but i liked them enough to warrent a rebuy and my absolute favorites. but thats not every single one ever made not by a long shot.
it feels like the industry is telling us this is good enough. and keeps us in the mind set of mid 2000 in stead of it being 2013. they should be doing what the movie industry is doing. releasing combo packs or just blu-rays only. releasing just dvds and for the fear of not knowing if a blu-ray release is following is just a stupid horrible buisness model that is just running the industry to the ground.
You make a number of good points. Particularly the one about delays between NA DVD and BD releases. I guess the justification for that is like American fans, the Japanese are just as willing to wait for a cheap, HD copy of a property.
While the entertainment industry, as a whole, has made a concerted effort to educate consumers, but that doesn't mean everyone will suddenly start caring about video quality. The difference between VHS and DVD was so obvious that the choice to upgrade was a clear one, but with DVD and BD, the quality difference isn't always as clear if you don't know what you're looking for. For example, if someone isn't aware of what "banding" is, they will probably not notice the issues with the recent Serial Experiments: Lain Blu-ray release, but they are clearly present. For a lot of people, especially in the current economic climate, they will choose to buy 3 or 4 series on DVD, rather than 2 on Blu-ray, just because video quality is better on the more expensive format, and I doubt any number of commercials are going to change that attitude.
I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that Right Stuf doesn't ship internationally. They will respect the wishes of distributors like Aniplex of America, and limit certain products to just the United States and Canada, but I don't believe those restrictions exist for the majority of products carried. While this does make it harder for some individuals to import from North America, it doesn't seem to stop these cheaper BDs from ending up on Amazon.co.jp's marketplace.
IMO, I don't consider DVD "good enough", I consider it better. Because not only the quality is more or less the same, but because Funimation tends to lock their subtitles for the BD releases, making it inferior to the DVD release. I like watching the dub with subtitles and will not pay for a BD release where I can't even watch the English language with the subtitles. Not to mention, I make AMVs as a hobby and I do not have a BD ripper. I rip DVDs I buy and I will not spend money on a BD which I can not rip. I also don't have a BD player, why should I spend money on these things when I can just easily get the DVD version and use the money I would have bought for the BD Player/Ripper and just use it to get the DVD versions? Win-win for me.
Sorry to say, if BD were more accessible to me in both the subtitle-dub format and had more rippable players on laptops, I might consider the change. But as it stands? No, IMO, DVD is better.
Not the software, the actual hardware.
Most laptops can't play BDs and if they can't play BDs, then naturally, they can't rip them either.
@Kazemon
If you really want it, you can drop 80-100 and get an external BD burner for a laptop. This Samsung is a pretty highly rated model for the $88:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827151251
I personally will not buy a DVD if a blu ray is available. I'll even hold off on buying one if a BD is expected to be released at a later date. I've spent to much on the rest of my media setup to get frustrated while watching something because in the back of my mind I'm thinking "man, this would be so much better on BD." The only thing I hesitate sometimes on thus far is 3D. Some of it looks good, such as the IMAX Hubble blu ray I have... it is astounding how much of a difference there is in that, but in a lot of the Hollywood releases I think it looks pretty poor. The Avengers is an example where I actually took out the 3D version and just watched it in BD. As for the reason why more anime isn't released in BD I thought it was pretty much established that reverse importation is the major stumbling block on most titles. The vast difference in price cannot be overstated. Take Steins;Gate for example, which for the two funi LEs runs roughly $100, while on CDJapan the Steins;Gate BD Box runs $404. That pricing structure is what keeps the Japanese companies in business, much more so than their income for licensing rights from an R1 company. Also, with something older that was released 4 or 5 years ago, I wouldn't think it would be economically viable for an R1 company to go back and license BD rights. Sure there are exceptions to this with big named titles (the previously mentioned Serial Experiments Lain being a good example) but typically I don't think the customer base would be there to make the license cost worthwhile. While I agree with the OP that it is frustrating and seems stupid, but the release timing of DVDs and BDs makes a little more sense if you look at it differently. Look at it as if Funi has the mindset of releasing the BD version as soon as they can, if they can afford it when it becomes available. Just pulling a number off the top of my head, consider if the Japanese licensing company requires a one year buffer between the final release date of the final disc in a set and the sale of the BD rights to the title. Funi might get the DVD rights to the property right after release and begin working on dubbing, and all the other things they do for a release. They release this and now 9 months has passed from the date the final BD was released in Japan. 3 months go by and now they can get the BD rights. So now they acquire those, and since the dubbing is done, the work required for release can be accomplished much quicker. So 3 more months go by and now they release the BD, giving a total of 6 months between the release of the DVD and the BD. Sure, this is something I just pulled off the top of my head, but it is a situation I could see occurring that would create the situation you describe.
Sponges grow in the ocean. That just kills me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn’t happen.- Steven Wright
its nice to be in canada , most of the anime here is in blueray .... heck most of the moves are as well , regular old dvds are being fazed out on this end of the boarder
Really? What non-US companies release in Canada? I could only find a few which catered to French speaking fanbases.