Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
I think I have changed my mind from initially not buying it from what I have read about this issue to now probably buying it. Am I disappointed that it is not quite as good as I was expecting (or hoping)...yeah a little, but do I partially understand it I do now that I have read blu-ray.com's review of it. Here's an excerpt:
"Most of the alarmist postings have dealt with the quite noticeable banding that is especially prevalent in the series' opening few episodes, but I wonder how many of the folks virtually screaming and yelling about the issue bothered to look in the accompanying "commentary" booklet, where it's quite unabashedly mentioned in a conversation between Ueda and Saito, specifically with regard to the first episode, which has been one of the prime examples that disappointed fans have been disparaging rather vociferously since receiving their sets. The bottom line is this: the banding has always been an issue with Serial Experiments Lain. Should it have been dealt with more aggressively here? Probably. The one thing that very few people are seeming to realize is the reason the banding is so much more evident in this new transfer is that this is quite noticeably brighter than either the Japanese set or the previous DVDs."
So could it be better? Yeah, but it is apparently better than the DVDs, in nice packaging, and I liked the series a lot so I'll buy it. It also really doesn't have much to do with BD-50 and BD-25s, but the source material and what was done with it, because a BD=50 can contain 3.5 hrs and maintain a decently high bitrate no problem. The Japanese version has better video quality sure, but it also cost roughly $315 at release, 6 times as much. It's also now out of print so you'd have to pay more to get it, so Ill take Funi's version.
*And I probably should mention that I am in the videophile category myself.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
@Batou
Ah that's good, if it goes on sale I'll be interested in buying it, I already have from Geneon but I'm interested in the BDs.
@Spaceman
AoA is a different company, and no sign subtitles on a dub track is a different issue then quality of video, I'd also bring up my anger that Sentai isn't releasing a JP dub of their Persona 4 BD release but it seems somewhat counter productive to bring it up here.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
I'm very interested in buying this release despite the banding issues, but for the people who DO have it: I read that some people have had problems with the paper peeling off of the box. Is that affecting your sets as well?
The banding bugs me, but so does this apparent problem with the box.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
I think the video looks great on my 720p projector, a very noticeable step up from the Signature Set. I can see all this detail in the darker backgrounds that was a blurry mess on DVD. As mentioned above, I don't think the video quality really suffered from dropping the disc count from 3 to 2 (though I remember this RUINED Funi's Mushishi DVD box set), the banding is just more noticeable because of the increased brightness, which improved other aspects of the video.
But how come none of you guys have mentioned the REAL problem with the Lain set?
THE JAPANESE AUDIO IS OUT OF SYNC WITH THE VIDEO AND SUBTITLES, getting more unsynced as the episodes go on. And I know it's not just my player or projector, because I tried the dub and it's perfectly in sync.
Un-effing-acceptable, Funi. I demand a replacement disc program ASAP after the issue can be fixed and more discs printed. I've already contacted them about this and I'd advise everyone to do the same.
And who the hell needed those DVDs, anyway? This isn't 2007 anymore, anyone buying an expensive Blu-ray set like this is going to own a player.
I didn't have any issues with box label peeling, but I guess I just got lucky.
EDIT 12/1: I was wrong about the syncing problems, it was in fact an issue of my player.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
@Gain: Really now? Can you give me an episode to where this is particularly noticeable? I want to check it out on my own copy and see if it's happening on my end too.
UPDATE: I just checked out the issue for myself, first by going to episode 6, and then episode 9.
I noticed absolutely no audio sync issues on the Japanese track. All the sound effects matched up perfectly to the video.
Now, what I did notice on episode 9 were that a few of the lip flaps were off, but this was more than likely present in the original Japanese presentation. That tends to happen a lot with Japanese dubs, particularly on older shows. Americans seem to put a lot more effort to matching the mouth movements as close as possible, whereas it's not as big of an issue with the Japanese.
I'd recommend trying the bluray out on another player if you have one, because I'm certainly not having the same issue you seem to be having.
Also, I did a Google search for any reports of a similar issue. So far, yours is the only one that's been acting like this.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
The banding has always been an issue with this series. Yes, it's more pronounced with the FUNi release but it's nothing new and your talking to someone who owns the original VHS singles. I've had absolutely no problems with anything even remotely considered "paper peeing off the box" I'm not sure where that's coming from. And as far as the Japanese audio being out of sync with the video? I've watched the first four episodes English dubbed and Japanese dubbed with English subtitles and have yet to notice anything out of sync. Maybe it's beyond episode four?
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
I have had one corner of the box peel a tiny bit, but I was able to fix it with some Elmer's glue.
Also, my box seems to be one of the "tighter" ones where the bluray cases don't seem to want to come out. I have to take the artbooks out first before pulling out the cases. This is kind of a hassle, but not too big of one. And I've heard of other users having no trouble getting the cases out at all. I must've just gotten one of the earlier, faulty ones.
Other than that, the box is gorgeous and I'm really happy with it.
As far as the video goes, as has been mentioned, the banding has pretty much ALWAYS been there. And despite the best efforts of many, it'll always be there, too. If it seems a bit more noticeable on the American set as opposed to the Japanese set, it's because the US set is a bit brighter. While this brightening does make a few things look worse, it also makes a lot of things look better and more detailed at the same time.
The argument that FUNimation is "cramming too many episodes on one disc" really has no merit. A BD-50 can easily hold 3 and a half hours worth of video with a consistently steady bitrate for good looking video. This has been proven before with other FUNi titles such as Steins;Gate, which also holds a lot of episodes on one disc yet looks fantastic.
There are absolutely NO audio sync issues in either the English or Japanese voice tracks. A few of the lip flaps in the Japanese dub are off, but that was the case in the original broadcast as well.
To all the haters and belly-achers, let's face it: For a 14 year old show, this is quite possibly the best release it can get on our shores. If you absolutely, positively, undeniably MUST have the same level of quality as the original Japanese release, then you are always welcome to go hunt down the original Japanese release.
Meanwhile, let the rest of us sit back and enjoy a true anime classic.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
SpacemanHardy wrote:
I have had one corner of the box peel a tiny bit, but I was able to fix it with some Elmer's glue.
Gain wrote:
I didn't have any issues with box label peeling, but I guess I just got lucky.
Hmm, okay. Thanks for the answers. I'll wait a while longer before ordering since I've got school stuff and other orders to pay for right now. But yeah, even though I haven't seen this show yet (I'll get to it soon, I promise), I've heard lots of good stuff about it and the booklets sound nice.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
Alright, I've got egg on my face. Tried the Lain Blu-rays in my PS3 and PC's BD drive, and the audio synced fine. Must be a problem on my end. I am wondering why it was only the Japanese audio track and not the dub, though.
Re: Serial Experiments Lain Blu-Ray Quality/Lack thereof
@batou01 that commentary booklet was translated from the Japanese set so is referring to the Japanese version which, as screenshots show, looks markedly different to FUNimation's (and not just in terms of black levels).
I think I have changed my mind from initially not buying it from what I have read about this issue to now probably buying it. Am I disappointed that it is not quite as good as I was expecting (or hoping)...yeah a little, but do I partially understand it I do now that I have read blu-ray.com's review of it. Here's an excerpt:
"Most of the alarmist postings have dealt with the quite noticeable banding that is especially prevalent in the series' opening few episodes, but I wonder how many of the folks virtually screaming and yelling about the issue bothered to look in the accompanying "commentary" booklet, where it's quite unabashedly mentioned in a conversation between Ueda and Saito, specifically with regard to the first episode, which has been one of the prime examples that disappointed fans have been disparaging rather vociferously since receiving their sets. The bottom line is this: the banding has always been an issue with Serial Experiments Lain. Should it have been dealt with more aggressively here? Probably. The one thing that very few people are seeming to realize is the reason the banding is so much more evident in this new transfer is that this is quite noticeably brighter than either the Japanese set or the previous DVDs."
So could it be better? Yeah, but it is apparently better than the DVDs, in nice packaging, and I liked the series a lot so I'll buy it. It also really doesn't have much to do with BD-50 and BD-25s, but the source material and what was done with it, because a BD=50 can contain 3.5 hrs and maintain a decently high bitrate no problem. The Japanese version has better video quality sure, but it also cost roughly $315 at release, 6 times as much. It's also now out of print so you'd have to pay more to get it, so Ill take Funi's version.
*And I probably should mention that I am in the videophile category myself.
Sponges grow in the ocean. That just kills me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn’t happen.- Steven Wright
@Batou
Ah that's good, if it goes on sale I'll be interested in buying it, I already have from Geneon but I'm interested in the BDs.
@Spaceman
AoA is a different company, and no sign subtitles on a dub track is a different issue then quality of video, I'd also bring up my anger that Sentai isn't releasing a JP dub of their Persona 4 BD release but it seems somewhat counter productive to bring it up here.
I'm very interested in buying this release despite the banding issues, but for the people who DO have it: I read that some people have had problems with the paper peeling off of the box. Is that affecting your sets as well?
The banding bugs me, but so does this apparent problem with the box.
MyAnimeList
It's Extraterrestrial (Pandora Hearts MMV)
CR Guest Pass expiring 6/24: http://www.crunchyroll.com/guest_pass?code=6SVX863FL6Z
I think the video looks great on my 720p projector, a very noticeable step up from the Signature Set. I can see all this detail in the darker backgrounds that was a blurry mess on DVD. As mentioned above, I don't think the video quality really suffered from dropping the disc count from 3 to 2 (though I remember this RUINED Funi's Mushishi DVD box set), the banding is just more noticeable because of the increased brightness, which improved other aspects of the video.
But how come none of you guys have mentioned the REAL problem with the Lain set?
THE JAPANESE AUDIO IS OUT OF SYNC WITH THE VIDEO AND SUBTITLES, getting more unsynced as the episodes go on. And I know it's not just my player or projector, because I tried the dub and it's perfectly in sync.
Un-effing-acceptable, Funi. I demand a replacement disc program ASAP after the issue can be fixed and more discs printed. I've already contacted them about this and I'd advise everyone to do the same.
And who the hell needed those DVDs, anyway? This isn't 2007 anymore, anyone buying an expensive Blu-ray set like this is going to own a player.
I didn't have any issues with box label peeling, but I guess I just got lucky.
EDIT 12/1: I was wrong about the syncing problems, it was in fact an issue of my player.
@Gain: Really now? Can you give me an episode to where this is particularly noticeable? I want to check it out on my own copy and see if it's happening on my end too.
UPDATE: I just checked out the issue for myself, first by going to episode 6, and then episode 9.
I noticed absolutely no audio sync issues on the Japanese track. All the sound effects matched up perfectly to the video.
Now, what I did notice on episode 9 were that a few of the lip flaps were off, but this was more than likely present in the original Japanese presentation. That tends to happen a lot with Japanese dubs, particularly on older shows. Americans seem to put a lot more effort to matching the mouth movements as close as possible, whereas it's not as big of an issue with the Japanese.
I'd recommend trying the bluray out on another player if you have one, because I'm certainly not having the same issue you seem to be having.
Also, I did a Google search for any reports of a similar issue. So far, yours is the only one that's been acting like this.
You WISH you were this awesome.
The banding has always been an issue with this series. Yes, it's more pronounced with the FUNi release but it's nothing new and your talking to someone who owns the original VHS singles. I've had absolutely no problems with anything even remotely considered "paper peeing off the box" I'm not sure where that's coming from. And as far as the Japanese audio being out of sync with the video? I've watched the first four episodes English dubbed and Japanese dubbed with English subtitles and have yet to notice anything out of sync. Maybe it's beyond episode four?
The_Slick....
I have had one corner of the box peel a tiny bit, but I was able to fix it with some Elmer's glue.
Also, my box seems to be one of the "tighter" ones where the bluray cases don't seem to want to come out. I have to take the artbooks out first before pulling out the cases. This is kind of a hassle, but not too big of one. And I've heard of other users having no trouble getting the cases out at all. I must've just gotten one of the earlier, faulty ones.
Other than that, the box is gorgeous and I'm really happy with it.
As far as the video goes, as has been mentioned, the banding has pretty much ALWAYS been there. And despite the best efforts of many, it'll always be there, too. If it seems a bit more noticeable on the American set as opposed to the Japanese set, it's because the US set is a bit brighter. While this brightening does make a few things look worse, it also makes a lot of things look better and more detailed at the same time.
The argument that FUNimation is "cramming too many episodes on one disc" really has no merit. A BD-50 can easily hold 3 and a half hours worth of video with a consistently steady bitrate for good looking video. This has been proven before with other FUNi titles such as Steins;Gate, which also holds a lot of episodes on one disc yet looks fantastic.
There are absolutely NO audio sync issues in either the English or Japanese voice tracks. A few of the lip flaps in the Japanese dub are off, but that was the case in the original broadcast as well.
To all the haters and belly-achers, let's face it: For a 14 year old show, this is quite possibly the best release it can get on our shores. If you absolutely, positively, undeniably MUST have the same level of quality as the original Japanese release, then you are always welcome to go hunt down the original Japanese release.
Meanwhile, let the rest of us sit back and enjoy a true anime classic.
You WISH you were this awesome.
Hmm, okay. Thanks for the answers. I'll wait a while longer before ordering since I've got school stuff and other orders to pay for right now. But yeah, even though I haven't seen this show yet (I'll get to it soon, I promise), I've heard lots of good stuff about it and the booklets sound nice.
MyAnimeList
It's Extraterrestrial (Pandora Hearts MMV)
CR Guest Pass expiring 6/24: http://www.crunchyroll.com/guest_pass?code=6SVX863FL6Z
Alright, I've got egg on my face. Tried the Lain Blu-rays in my PS3 and PC's BD drive, and the audio synced fine. Must be a problem on my end. I am wondering why it was only the Japanese audio track and not the dub, though.
Sorry for the false accusation, Funi.
@batou01 that commentary booklet was translated from the Japanese set so is referring to the Japanese version which, as screenshots show, looks markedly different to FUNimation's (and not just in terms of black levels).
Signature? What signature?