Re: Qualifications of a "Classic" Blu-ray release?
@Neon: I would disagree abit on Tatami & Fractle, although I guess they would be in something more along the lines of an anime Criterion collection then a classics. Something artsy but niche.
But yeah MOMH is the one big red flag that kind of ruins the whole pot. Ikki Tousin, High School DXD & Sekirei, would be much much more deserving of being called a "Classic" ecchi title. But sadly the past can't be changed and thankfully Funi is getting a little bit better at what titles they do & don't put in their classics line. *just a little bit XD*
But ahh yeah getting back on topic, I'd love to see Kaledo Star get a Blu-Ray re-release, but i'm not sure if it even has one in Japan!? That may be one reason why. And since its not popular enough for Funi to HD-ify *yay for made up words! XD* themselves, probably won't happen any time soon sadly.
You know in the end might be better if companies just dropped classic lines all together and just split it up into more honest lines like "Best Sellers" and "Retro" that way it would be a more straight forward approach to selling fans titles and helping them get what they want more efficiently... well imo anywho.
Re: Qualifications of a "Classic" Blu-ray release?
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@Neon: I would disagree abit on Tatami & Fractle, although I guess they would be in something more along the lines of an anime Criterion collection then a classics. Something artsy but niche.
True, but both series, as much as you and I adored them, they sadly weren't as well received by the rest of the anime community, which sucks because it would have been really nice to get a bluray release for Tatami Galaxy. At least I was able to get Fractale.
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You know in the end might be better if companies just dropped classic lines all together and just split it up into more honest lines like "Best Sellers" and "Retro" that way it would be a more straight forward approach to selling fans titles and helping them get what they want more efficiently... well imo anywho.
This isn't such a bad idea.
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I'm not sure I'd say NGE or Madoka Magica are all that accessible. I think general genre familiarity is required to really get the full experience out of it. I guess any anime fan would know enough about Super Robots or Magical Girls, but they definitely aren't something I'd show a total newbie
Well, I understand the Evangelion, at least the TV series, does get convoluted and self indulgent at times, but there are so many people I know who have never watched anime, but got into it on account of seeing Evangelion as a "gateway" anime. Speaking for myself, I'm really not into the mecha type of animes, most of the time I just can't get into them, but I feel the Evangelion series has a lot more to offer a viewer than the run of the mill mecha.
This is actually more so with Puella Magi Madoka Magica - I feel it's actually more accessable to an audience - at 12 episodes it's more to the point, there's really not much time in the series for it to become self indulgent. Understand though, accessability doesn't make a series or movie any less intelligent, as a matter of fact as I mentioned, it is quite difficult for an artist to find that balance and my hat goes off to those people. So while someone analytical like you or myself can sit and watch an anime such as PMMM and derive different interpretations from it, the fan who just wants to be entertained can watch it and be satisfied as well.
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To me the term "classic" just refers to something that's proven to be timeless. Something that people who haven't even it seen would recognize or at least have heard of. For example, Schindler's List or to use one of your examples, Forest Gump, are now 20 years old(scary, isn't it?). But people still talk about them. People still claim them among the best Hollywood has to offer. Congress has acknowledged them both as being "culturally significant" and admitted them to the National Film Registry in the Library of Congress. So then, what would the anime equivalent of that be? Certainly FMA and NGE. Cowboy Bebop or most of the Ghibli films, probably. I'd give Madoka Magica a few more years, though I think it will get there. Shiki, while criminally underrated, probably doesn't have the mass recognition.
Oh, absolutely, Schindler's List was another amazing movie, and no word of a lie, I think I've seen that movie over 30 times in its entirety, maybe more. Forest Gump which is quite old now - and I remember reanting it when it first came out on (get ready for this.....) VHS, what a movie. And you're right FMA, NGE, CB, and eventually PMMM among many others would be in there. I think one of the issues with Shiki is for some reason, people think it's an anime geared towards a female demographic, I don't know how they arrive at that conclusion, but it certainly doesn't help, because it was one of those animes, like some of my favorites (each FMA Brotherhood set, Queen's Blade, Fractale) I ripped through in a single weekend - and normally I take my time with animes. It's that sccenerio like Lay's chips where once you watch one episode, you can't stop.
But in order for a piece of art to be honored in such a way and become timeless is through positive reception among critics and fans - of course, there are exceptions to this - Dumb and Dumber was ripped to shreds by critics but was so exceedingly well received by fans (and still is) that it has become a classic over time.
Understand though, like Shiki, there are many great movies that have a cult following that were amazing, Snatch and The Prestige are a couple of masterpieces in my opinion and neither got any award recognition that I know of. But, staying objective, they unfortunately don't meet the criteria, even though I strongly feel they do - well, like my favorite animes, they're classics to me. But if you haven't watched the Prestige, I strongly recommend it.
But this does translate over to music - I don't mention music too much around here, but there are some bands out there that are beyond amazing, they wrote songs that were unique, innovative and experimental and yet maintained listener accessability. If you're a fan of something refreshing, I highly recommend you check out the band Faith No More, they have many great albums, but Angel Dust is the one, it has some beautiful songs on there; amazing musicianship and outstanding vocal work, the use of Ionian, Natural Minor and Harmonic Minor (for a more "arabian" sound) scales. They were able to fuse and integrate rock, classical, funk, metal and even hip hop into a masterpiece album, and there are even a couple of comedy songs they throw on there, one where they use the underwater music from the first Super Mario Bros game as the piano melody. Point is, hardly anybody even knows these guys existed and to me that's just wrong, and they're music is just as hooky as anything on the radio. Album blows my mind everytime I turn it on.
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I just don't understand why Martial Hearts exists. I mean, I get why Ikkitousen and Queens Blade exist. I don't see the appeal personally, but I can understand it. Martial Hearts is just so mean spirited and soulless, even for its genre. The ending alone is just trying so hard to be dark and edgy that its just kind of becomes uncomfortable, or at least more uncomfortable than it already was.
I understand QB and IT aren't your thing, but fans service aside, they are really good animes; the characters are innovative in personality and design, they're all so unique, the stories on both actually, surprisingly have a good deal of depth - no, not to the extent of NGE, FMA or PMMM, but there are subtleties there that astute viewers pick up on and I do respect the artisitc work that went into these animes - in retrospect, when it comes to these sorts of animes, I would say QB and IT are classics within their own respective genres. But as I've said time and time before, you can have as much fanservice as you want in an anime(well there is a line, Seikon no Qwaser was a little much even for me), but if the characters and story don't offer much, don't expect viewers to stick around. However, I can understand and respect why people may shy away from them. I heard the ending of MOMH was just plain cheesy.
As for your question about MOMH, I said it in my other post there;
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a cheap imitation brought about to capitalize on the fighting girl ecchi gravy train.
I'm sure many of the producers think easy money when it comes to this, but what they failed to understand with the success of QB and IT is that there was some innovation with story and characters. In other words, like NGE with Mecha and PMMM with magical girls, QB and IT offer the viewer more than just generic fanservice (a good story and refreshing characters), and that was the issue with MOMH, the characters were just so generic, there was so little unique about them, it felt as though the anime was just thrown together quickly without any consideration for many of the fans intelligence. I'm not saying that you have to like QB or IT, I know these animes aren't your cup of tea as with a few others.
Forgive me Alexis Tipton, I'll give you some caramel kisses if you're ever here to make up for my insolence.
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Again, I'm kinda rambling off topic...
Not really, and this discussion seems a little more constructive, we may actually be coming to some sort of an agreement for once.
Re: Qualifications of a "Classic" Blu-ray release?
neonwalrus wrote:
we may actually be coming to some sort of an agreement for once.
Well I think we can all agree that Funimation's Classics line is a bit of a misnomer. I'm not sure what the marketing appeal of "classic" is that it couldn't be substituted with a broader term like "Greatest Hits" or something. Unfortunately, I doubt there's much incentive for them to change it so we'll just have to live with clueless newbies think MoMH is a "classic" title
neonwalrus wrote:
This is actually more so with Puella Magi Madoka Magica - I feel it's actually more accessable to an audience
I'm not saying newbies can't enjoy them or that they're totally impenetrable. I just think having a little prior knowledge of the genres they're subverting makes them a little more meaningful. I love Magical Girl Anime, I have 4 of them in my top20. One of which is a completely straight up made-for-little-girls magical ballet(And I don't care who knows it!). Anyways, my point is that being aware of the tropes that Madoka subverts, how it subverts them, and ultimately how it reconstructs them, added a lot of significance to an already complex work filled with allegory and symbolism. Which I'm sure is the reason I attached to it so hard.
So you can show it to newbies and the quality of the writing and art alone will probably be enough to make an impact on them, but I think you might also be doing a disservice by not utilizing it when it would have the most effect. That's all I'm saying.
neonwalrus wrote:
people think it's an anime geared towards a female demographic, I don't know how they arrive at that conclusion
It's the Vampires. Sh*t like Twilight and Vampire Knight has hijacked the chilling, sensual nature of vampire lore and equated it to the abusive bad-boy "I can fix him with love!" boyfriend stereotype common in female oriented literature. Much to the chagrin of pretty much every classical horror fan.
neonwalrus wrote:
I heard the ending of MOMH was just plain cheesy.
"Cheesy" is not even close to the word I would use. It's almost impossible to describe really. I don't want to spoil it, even though nobody should ever actually watch MoMH. But suffice to say the ending is so completely out of left field and spitefully grimdark that it's simultaneously more offensive and trashy than the rest of the show, while saying to the audience "Oh, what's that? You like girls fighting each other with lots of Fanservice? Well how about now, you sicko!?" at the same time. Which is why I say that I don't know why it exists. It alienates everyone that doesn't like fanservice and then chastises the ones that actually sit through it. It's freaking mind boggling.
Soundmonkey44 wrote:
But ahh yeah getting back on topic, I'd love to see Kaledo Star get a Blu-Ray re-release, but i'm not sure if it even has one in Japan!?
I'd totally buy that. But a quick search of Amazon.jp suggests there is not a Blu-ray release.
Re: Qualifications of a "Classic" Blu-ray release?
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Well I think we can all agree that Funimation's Classics line is a bit of a misnomer. I'm not sure what the marketing appeal of "classic" is that it couldn't be substituted with a broader term like "Greatest Hits" or something.
That's the case with a lot of things in life.
Although I must add, series like Chobits, GunGrave, Samurai Champloo and Texhnolyze fit in to the classics title very nicely - understand though, when I say this, some of my personal bias is at work.
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Unfortunately, I doubt there's much incentive for them to change it so we'll just have to live with clueless newbies think MoMH is a "classic" title
Awww man, now that's so cold, just throw them to the sharks, not sure if I could do that, but then again having to watch a bad anime or an anime that doesn't suit personal tastes is almost like a rite of passage for anime fans. I have a few DVD series I'm not too proud of that I call the "stack of regret." Actually that could backfire; with the "classic" label they may think it's an acclaimed anime, then watch it and think; "this is the best anime has to offer? I don't think anime is for me." A bit extreme and I'm just being a smartass.
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It's the Vampires. Sh*t like Twilight and Vampire Knight has hijacked the chilling, sensual nature of vampire lore and equated it to the abusive bad-boy "I can fix him with love!" boyfriend stereotype common in female oriented literature. Much to the chagrin of pretty much every classical horror fan.
I didn't get into Twilight, it's not really for me, and fine if people like that interpretation of the vampire mythology, however, we have some good vampire animes that I really enjoyed, we've talked about Shiki, but another good, and underrated series is Dance in the Vampire Bund, I really enjoyed that, then there's the Hellsing Ultimate series (which is another great one, but everyone already knows that) and even the original Hellsing anime, although it did get somewhat ambiguous at times it was still pretty good.
Basically, from the vampire anime I have seen, Shiki did an amazing job bringing the vampire mythology back to its roots while Dance in the Vampire Bund was a really neat and new interpretation of the legend than Hellsing, particularly Hellsing Ultimate really took it to new heights.
It really is a shame my family won't even try anime, my sister who is a Twilight fan who also has my brother and her fiance (he has no escape anyways) drinking the kool-aid. Because I would love to get them watching Shiki, it not only outdoes Twilight in everyway shape and form (hardly a basis for comparision considering the leagues the two stories are in), but I know if they would give it a chance they'd dig it.
Anyways, speaking of some classic, or, should I say criterion material, I would put Princess Jellyfish right in there, another wonderful anime.
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"Cheesy" is not even close to the word I would use. It's almost impossible to describe really. I don't want to spoil it, even though nobody should ever actually watch MoMH. But suffice to say the ending is so completely out of left field and spitefully grimdark that it's simultaneously more offensive and trashy than the rest of the show, while saying to the audience "Oh, what's that? You like girls fighting each other with lots of Fanservice? Well how about now, you sicko!?" at the same time. Which is why I say that I don't know why it exists. It alienates everyone that doesn't like fanservice and then chastises the ones that actually sit through it. It's freaking mind boggling.
As for MOMH, so the ending is that horrible; I don't how how it could outdo the rest of the show but are you saying it's worse than Green Green? I saw Green Green and that's another disliked anime in the fan service genre by everyone including the genre's fans. For the most part all the characters were creepy, the jokes weren't funny and for a fan service show, there really wasn't much there for fan service.
@Neon: I would disagree abit on Tatami & Fractle, although I guess they would be in something more along the lines of an anime Criterion collection then a classics. Something artsy but niche.
But yeah MOMH is the one big red flag that kind of ruins the whole pot. Ikki Tousin, High School DXD & Sekirei, would be much much more deserving of being called a "Classic" ecchi title. But sadly the past can't be changed and thankfully Funi is getting a little bit better at what titles they do & don't put in their classics line. *just a little bit XD*
But ahh yeah getting back on topic, I'd love to see Kaledo Star get a Blu-Ray re-release, but i'm not sure if it even has one in Japan!? That may be one reason why. And since its not popular enough for Funi to HD-ify *yay for made up words! XD* themselves, probably won't happen any time soon sadly.
You know in the end might be better if companies just dropped classic lines all together and just split it up into more honest lines like "Best Sellers" and "Retro" that way it would be a more straight forward approach to selling fans titles and helping them get what they want more efficiently... well imo anywho.
Isn't It Great To Different, Isn't It Great To Be Who You Are!? Once You Learn To Accept Yourself, You'll Become A Shining Star.
True, but both series, as much as you and I adored them, they sadly weren't as well received by the rest of the anime community, which sucks because it would have been really nice to get a bluray release for Tatami Galaxy. At least I was able to get Fractale.
This isn't such a bad idea.
Well, I understand the Evangelion, at least the TV series, does get convoluted and self indulgent at times, but there are so many people I know who have never watched anime, but got into it on account of seeing Evangelion as a "gateway" anime. Speaking for myself, I'm really not into the mecha type of animes, most of the time I just can't get into them, but I feel the Evangelion series has a lot more to offer a viewer than the run of the mill mecha.
This is actually more so with Puella Magi Madoka Magica - I feel it's actually more accessable to an audience - at 12 episodes it's more to the point, there's really not much time in the series for it to become self indulgent. Understand though, accessability doesn't make a series or movie any less intelligent, as a matter of fact as I mentioned, it is quite difficult for an artist to find that balance and my hat goes off to those people. So while someone analytical like you or myself can sit and watch an anime such as PMMM and derive different interpretations from it, the fan who just wants to be entertained can watch it and be satisfied as well.
Oh, absolutely, Schindler's List was another amazing movie, and no word of a lie, I think I've seen that movie over 30 times in its entirety, maybe more. Forest Gump which is quite old now - and I remember reanting it when it first came out on (get ready for this.....) VHS, what a movie. And you're right FMA, NGE, CB, and eventually PMMM among many others would be in there. I think one of the issues with Shiki is for some reason, people think it's an anime geared towards a female demographic, I don't know how they arrive at that conclusion, but it certainly doesn't help, because it was one of those animes, like some of my favorites (each FMA Brotherhood set, Queen's Blade, Fractale) I ripped through in a single weekend - and normally I take my time with animes. It's that sccenerio like Lay's chips where once you watch one episode, you can't stop.
But in order for a piece of art to be honored in such a way and become timeless is through positive reception among critics and fans - of course, there are exceptions to this - Dumb and Dumber was ripped to shreds by critics but was so exceedingly well received by fans (and still is) that it has become a classic over time.
Understand though, like Shiki, there are many great movies that have a cult following that were amazing, Snatch and The Prestige are a couple of masterpieces in my opinion and neither got any award recognition that I know of. But, staying objective, they unfortunately don't meet the criteria, even though I strongly feel they do - well, like my favorite animes, they're classics to me. But if you haven't watched the Prestige, I strongly recommend it.
But this does translate over to music - I don't mention music too much around here, but there are some bands out there that are beyond amazing, they wrote songs that were unique, innovative and experimental and yet maintained listener accessability. If you're a fan of something refreshing, I highly recommend you check out the band Faith No More, they have many great albums, but Angel Dust is the one, it has some beautiful songs on there; amazing musicianship and outstanding vocal work, the use of Ionian, Natural Minor and Harmonic Minor (for a more "arabian" sound) scales. They were able to fuse and integrate rock, classical, funk, metal and even hip hop into a masterpiece album, and there are even a couple of comedy songs they throw on there, one where they use the underwater music from the first Super Mario Bros game as the piano melody. Point is, hardly anybody even knows these guys existed and to me that's just wrong, and they're music is just as hooky as anything on the radio. Album blows my mind everytime I turn it on.
I understand QB and IT aren't your thing, but fans service aside, they are really good animes; the characters are innovative in personality and design, they're all so unique, the stories on both actually, surprisingly have a good deal of depth - no, not to the extent of NGE, FMA or PMMM, but there are subtleties there that astute viewers pick up on and I do respect the artisitc work that went into these animes - in retrospect, when it comes to these sorts of animes, I would say QB and IT are classics within their own respective genres. But as I've said time and time before, you can have as much fanservice as you want in an anime(well there is a line, Seikon no Qwaser was a little much even for me), but if the characters and story don't offer much, don't expect viewers to stick around. However, I can understand and respect why people may shy away from them. I heard the ending of MOMH was just plain cheesy.
As for your question about MOMH, I said it in my other post there;
I'm sure many of the producers think easy money when it comes to this, but what they failed to understand with the success of QB and IT is that there was some innovation with story and characters. In other words, like NGE with Mecha and PMMM with magical girls, QB and IT offer the viewer more than just generic fanservice (a good story and refreshing characters), and that was the issue with MOMH, the characters were just so generic, there was so little unique about them, it felt as though the anime was just thrown together quickly without any consideration for many of the fans intelligence. I'm not saying that you have to like QB or IT, I know these animes aren't your cup of tea as with a few others.
Forgive me Alexis Tipton, I'll give you some caramel kisses if you're ever here to make up for my insolence.
Not really, and this discussion seems a little more constructive, we may actually be coming to some sort of an agreement for once.
Well I think we can all agree that Funimation's Classics line is a bit of a misnomer. I'm not sure what the marketing appeal of "classic" is that it couldn't be substituted with a broader term like "Greatest Hits" or something. Unfortunately, I doubt there's much incentive for them to change it so we'll just have to live with clueless newbies think MoMH is a "classic" title
I'm not saying newbies can't enjoy them or that they're totally impenetrable. I just think having a little prior knowledge of the genres they're subverting makes them a little more meaningful. I love Magical Girl Anime, I have 4 of them in my top20. One of which is a completely straight up made-for-little-girls magical ballet(And I don't care who knows it!). Anyways, my point is that being aware of the tropes that Madoka subverts, how it subverts them, and ultimately how it reconstructs them, added a lot of significance to an already complex work filled with allegory and symbolism. Which I'm sure is the reason I attached to it so hard.
So you can show it to newbies and the quality of the writing and art alone will probably be enough to make an impact on them, but I think you might also be doing a disservice by not utilizing it when it would have the most effect. That's all I'm saying.
It's the Vampires. Sh*t like Twilight and Vampire Knight has hijacked the chilling, sensual nature of vampire lore and equated it to the abusive bad-boy "I can fix him with love!" boyfriend stereotype common in female oriented literature. Much to the chagrin of pretty much every classical horror fan.
"Cheesy" is not even close to the word I would use. It's almost impossible to describe really. I don't want to spoil it, even though nobody should ever actually watch MoMH. But suffice to say the ending is so completely out of left field and spitefully grimdark that it's simultaneously more offensive and trashy than the rest of the show, while saying to the audience "Oh, what's that? You like girls fighting each other with lots of Fanservice? Well how about now, you sicko!?" at the same time. Which is why I say that I don't know why it exists. It alienates everyone that doesn't like fanservice and then chastises the ones that actually sit through it. It's freaking mind boggling.
I'd totally buy that. But a quick search of Amazon.jp suggests there is not a Blu-ray release.
Don't forget. Always, somewhere, someone is fighting for you.
As long as you remember Her, you are not alone.
That's the case with a lot of things in life.
Although I must add, series like Chobits, GunGrave, Samurai Champloo and Texhnolyze fit in to the classics title very nicely - understand though, when I say this, some of my personal bias is at work.
Awww man, now that's so cold, just throw them to the sharks, not sure if I could do that, but then again having to watch a bad anime or an anime that doesn't suit personal tastes is almost like a rite of passage for anime fans. I have a few DVD series I'm not too proud of that I call the "stack of regret." Actually that could backfire; with the "classic" label they may think it's an acclaimed anime, then watch it and think; "this is the best anime has to offer? I don't think anime is for me." A bit extreme and I'm just being a smartass.
I didn't get into Twilight, it's not really for me, and fine if people like that interpretation of the vampire mythology, however, we have some good vampire animes that I really enjoyed, we've talked about Shiki, but another good, and underrated series is Dance in the Vampire Bund, I really enjoyed that, then there's the Hellsing Ultimate series (which is another great one, but everyone already knows that) and even the original Hellsing anime, although it did get somewhat ambiguous at times it was still pretty good.
Basically, from the vampire anime I have seen, Shiki did an amazing job bringing the vampire mythology back to its roots while Dance in the Vampire Bund was a really neat and new interpretation of the legend than Hellsing, particularly Hellsing Ultimate really took it to new heights.
It really is a shame my family won't even try anime, my sister who is a Twilight fan who also has my brother and her fiance (he has no escape anyways) drinking the kool-aid. Because I would love to get them watching Shiki, it not only outdoes Twilight in everyway shape and form (hardly a basis for comparision considering the leagues the two stories are in), but I know if they would give it a chance they'd dig it.
Anyways, speaking of some classic, or, should I say criterion material, I would put Princess Jellyfish right in there, another wonderful anime.
As for MOMH, so the ending is that horrible; I don't how how it could outdo the rest of the show but are you saying it's worse than Green Green? I saw Green Green and that's another disliked anime in the fan service genre by everyone including the genre's fans. For the most part all the characters were creepy, the jokes weren't funny and for a fan service show, there really wasn't much there for fan service.