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  1. #141
    neonwalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soundmonkey44 View Post
    Also Relevant
    I saw this, wanted to respond to it, but forgot to, so first of all, it’s a pretty funny video and a catchy song; the issue is that it implicitly states that people don’t take Samus seriously after finding out the character is female and was portrayed more feminine and sensual in another game.

    The issue is that despite how Samus has been presented over the years, people still take the character seriously; this would be similar to the playable female characters on Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive; yes, they’re “attractive” (along with most of the male characters) but the audience knows how capable as characters they are.

    Moving along though, it appears Thunderf00t just keeps making new videos:



    After watching this, I realized I made a mistake:

    Quote Originally Posted by neonwalrus View Post
    For once, Anita Sarkeesian does make some good points on this video that I agree with when it comes to being violent towards a certain group of people and being rewarded for it.
    Well, was I ever wrong after seeing Thunderf00t’s video.

    Quote Originally Posted by neonwalrus View Post
    Understand, I don’t agree with everything she says here, in some incidents, she does ignore context, and other times she doesn’t ask the right questions.
    At least I mentioned this, unfortunately I was ignorant to how severely Sarkeesian ignored context. On the bright side, I can stand by the rest of my original post; I did say she used cherry picked data.




    Quote Originally Posted by iamshodan View Post
    And with your well-place explanations, I don't consider Queen's Blade or Dead Or Alive to be sexist anymore. Silly, pandering, offensive, but not sexist.
    I appreciate that you took the time to read what I had written and that it managed to make a bit of a difference. I do agree that Queen’s Blade can be a little silly and pandering at times with all the ecchi content however; despite all this, it’s still a great series.

    As far as Queen’s Blade and Dead or Alive being offensive, I can’t say I agree, but then again, it’s really not my place to say, nor am I in any position to allow or deny permission to what people should and shouldn’t find offensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamshodan View Post
    However, I now have the following to say, I'm glad that when one person on Youtube called sexism on Girls Bravo, he said it was sexist to both genders, not just women, meaning that he didn't fall into the same old double-standard trap.
    You know, I don’t care if people find sensuality and eroticism sexist, offensive, or if they find it distracting when watching an anime; as long as they’re consistent about it; I’ll still disagree with them simply because of how I see it. I’ve seen enough people, fans and critics alike, praise Free while shitting on any anime with fan service that appeals to a male demographic and I have seen things go the other way as well. Yay for double standards right?

    In the case of critics, I see a lot of disingenuous sentiment expressed about technical and literary properties/strengths of a given series because it has fan service on it aside from the fact that most of them are incapable of seeing sexism beyond a one-sided narrative and outcome. I’ve read entire blog entries, forum posts and articles where critics attempt to justify abandoning their metrics and due process when reviewing a series like Cat Planet Cuties or Queen’s Blade. The fact is that both these series follow the principles of good storytelling right down to the letter along with being entertaining as any great series is; it’s possible to admit they’re narratively and thematically sound and consistent but dislike the fan service.

    Anyways, it goes back to what I often hear critics say; along the lines of how it’s perfectly acceptable and fine to like and be entertained by a piece of media that’s “bad.” Sadly, in my experience, critics have a horrible tendency to see things from a one sided perspective, which is an inhibition of critical thought and empathy unto itself, I have never heard anyone say; how it’s perfectly acceptable and fine to dislike, hate or be disinterested in a piece of media that’s “good.” If I look at this with anime, critics can easily tout Kyousougiga, The Tatami Galaxy or Shiki as perfect examples of that, however; I’m strongly inclined to include Queen’s Blade in there as well with what it accomplished thematically and narratively. I’ve mentioned in other posts how I know people who have watched this anime and while disliking the fan service, at least acknowledged that it is a good story populated with well-written characters that delves into some themes in a coherent and intelligent manner.

    I still stand by the fact that all anime is art, and art is subjective even when there are factors there that can be quantified and looked at objectively; unfortunately, it has been demonstrated on this very forum that what one individual considers a strength, another sees it as a weakness. One aspect, such as ecchi for example, agitates one individual while some people welcome it while it just doesn’t bother others. The bigger issue is bias, which I have already talked about in great detail here: http://www.funimation.com/forum/show...-Debate-Thread
    The seventh and eighth posts which are mine are the ones I’m talking about.

    Lamentably though, there are plenty of fans who look forward to, watch, and buy these shows to wax their carrots or glaze their donuts depending on their equipment and they have no care about how “good” some of these shows really are. I mean, critics are free to hate on this stuff; I can always look at their reviews with scrutiny and criticize them, and as for people who just “want to get off,” fine, but the point is none of these people are fully appreciating or respecting the art before them and as a result; losing out on what really matters due to some superficial elements that don’t strike their fancy, or do a little too much.

    One thing that people haven’t really touched on is that it’s very possible to enjoy a series even if it does have some offensive/sexist parts in it. Me, as an individual is a person that proves this; I still like Girls Bravo along Death Note and Cat Planet Cuties is one of my top favorite anime despite some of the mild sexism on them.

  2. #142
    neonwalrus's Avatar
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    With that last Grand Theft Auto game, Carolyn Michelle, showed great practice by giving the game a 9/10, praising the gameplay, graphics and other features only noting that the game is a little sexist at times as one of her only major issues. She took a lot of flak for this from the more, shall we say, undesirable pocket of the gaming community. I find this funny because, even though I don’t completely agree with her, I think she was being perfectly fair, and she did offer a balanced opinion. Considering this direct quote: “Perhaps most troubling is a mission in which you’re instructed to torture a man.” While she doesn’t acknowledge this as sexism but more as “moments of hypocrisy and inconsistency diminish the otherwise strong characters,” she at least brings up violence as a problem when the victim is male; at least that’s something more than what more political correct crusaders do. If you want to read more, the entire article is here: http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/gran.../1900-6414475/

    Referring to Girls Bravo and what was said; “I'm glad that when one person on Youtube called sexism on Girls Bravo, he said it was sexist to both genders, not just women.” I can agree that it is also sexist to women; not because of the frivolous nudity, but because of how the main female characters are portrayed. One is paranoid and afraid of men, another is the so-called “dream girl” who, not so much seems lacking in intelligence, but oblivious to everything around her, one is an obsessive stalker, and then we have an over reactive, “hysterical” textbook psychopath abuser.

    However; just as I said that Elfen Lied is more sexist towards women; Girls Bravo is more sexist towards men. Aside from the comedic violence perpetrated on the men at the hands of female characters, which actually does echo how male victims of any violence at the hands of women is seen in reality; “He must’ve done something to piss her off,” “He probably doesn’t respect women,” “You go girl.” The way the male characters are portrayed is worse than the female ones; the leads; one of which is a gynophobic little wimp, he’s laughed at, ridiculed, insulted and beaten up by girls, even ones that claim they care about him. Then the other is a foil to the protagonist; he’s a raging harassing pervert with so much arrogance and a massive entitlement complex who acts as punching bag.

    On Cat Planet Cuties, Eris sexually assaults Kio when he’s washing himself, technically speaking. I understand that the early episodes, while doing a good job of fleshing out the characters along with establishing a solid dynamic and crafting a good narrative it is also a little bit of that “wish fulfillment” for the young male demographic watching it; of course, it’s imperative that I implicitly say reality and fiction are two completely different things. However; if I take off my “but it’s one of my favorite anime” lens for a moment and look at the situation objectively she comes into the washroom without his consent and goes on to brush herself up on him along with touching and feeling him without his consent.


    “You like this sweet prince.”

    Nevertheless, I still feel this is harmless fun, for a few reasons. One being that she’s an alien and doesn’t understand that it’s bad manners to walk in on someone while bathing, perhaps on their planet, the female is the dominant of the species and it’s customary for them to be more forward with the males; who knows? The other reason is that it does lead to a hilarious outcome, particularly when she picks up Kio with no effort when running from Manami because she assumes Kio is behind the whole thing. This is where it gets questionable; Eris invaded Kio’s personal space yet Manami assumes it’s his fault resulting in discounting that Eris in her agency was the proactive one. Thankfully, Manami does apologize to Kio after he lectures her a little bit, so, it’s not too bad of a scene, but worth talking about.

    In the case of Death Note, there is a sort of condescending vibe towards the female cast, it almost feels like a bunch of boys playing in a sandbox playing and getting dirty and then a girl wants to play too and they reject her saying; “Oh, go play on the swings or something, this is big boy playtime.”

    The only female main character is Misa, who’s an obsessive fan girl/groupie for Light who has no problem being used by him, okay, fine, I can let that slide. However; the only female characters that can be really taken seriously that have a high level of intelligence either get killed off because they’re too much of a threat, some just aren’t in the series much and others are merely cannon fodder. Yes, there is an exponentially higher body count for male victims as cannon fodder, but at least there are some good male leads there though. There’s the one that gets close to cracking the case as a result is still duped by Light; narratively because she’s too much of a threat as I had mentioned. I think Death Note could’ve very easily swapped out one of the detectives on the task force for a female one and things could’ve remained the same, and no, I’m not turning into a “social justice warrior/feminist crusader” I’m just looking at the situation and saying switching a male character with actual lines for a female wouldn’t have disrupted anything narratively; so why not do it?


    “I could’ve been a female character.”

    Lastly, Black Lagoon, another anime I enjoyed, one problem; it does get a little misandristic at times with female empowerment portrayed as being rude and vulgar. Most of the female characters are the ones doing the killing and being virtually unstoppable with the overwhelmingly vast majority of victims being male cannon fodder. This is not balanced in that most male lead media, while the hero is male; the villains and cannon fodder are male being reserved to the role of crash test dummy in media regardless of the hero’s gender. My thinking is that if there are going to be cool female protagonists; there needs to be unlikable female antagonists and cannon fodder. Thankfully there are characters like Mr. Chow with his intellect and gun skills, Dutch and his intellect and leadership abilities; not to mention he’s the only one who can stand up to Revy, and Rock’s supreme strategic intelligence, ability to read people and cold calculating mind. These guys just aren’t on the series much, with most of the men being cannon fodder and the others being complete idiotic goof offs for comic relief.

    Anyways, I think I have rambled enough, despite how harsh I may have come off with these shows; I still enjoy them and prize them as favorites.

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