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  1. #131
    Soundmonkey44's Avatar
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    Yeah. It's kind of depressing, ecspeicslly the prominent role women played in the French Revolution.

    As for me, never played an Assassins Creed game myself, had a passing interest but never actually set down and played one. Honestly only series from Ubisoft I've ever followed is Rayman.

    The company as a whole though seems to be under a lot of scrutiny these days, sad thing is, it seems such negativity towards them might be justified. :/
    &nbsp;&nbsp;A WILD MONKEY ENTERS THE FRAY! &nbsp;TOONS N COMIC STUFF HERE!&nbsp;

  2. #132
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    I laughed when I read that story because it made me think of the disclaimer they put at the beginning of the Assassin's Creed games

    "This work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs...and we're all men"

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riles View Post
    I laughed when I read that story because it made me think of the disclaimer they put at the beginning of the Assassin's Creed games

    "This work of fiction was designed, developed, and produced by a multicultural team of various religious faiths and beliefs...and we're all men"
    That's actually pretty funny.

    As for the Sarkeesian video, while she makes some good points I agree with, my criticism for her is how one sided she does everything, but, I've already gone into great detail about that already, so there's no need in repeating myself.

  4. #134
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    I knew it would only be a matter of time until Anita struck again. And I was right.

    You know, I think neonwalrus was right when he said that he believed that Anita Sarkeesian's biggest problem is that she doesn't understand that we viewers can actually know for a fact that they shouldn't internalize the horrific acts they see on the screen. And the same could be said of a similarly controversial individual named Jack Thompson. I feel that Anita's blaming of domestic abuse on video games (see her Damsels in Distress part 2 video) is similar to Jack Thompson's blaming of mass shootings on video games. In fact, I'll show you a video of that latter right below:



    However, remember that petition website to get gaming journalists to acknowledge and present legitimate criticism of Anita Sarkeesian? Well, this video right here gives me the impression that it's working:



  5. #135
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    Before I go further, I agree with that Escapist video when they mentioned how if someone disagrees with Sarkeesian , they’re usually labelled a sexist, however; it’s only by intellectually inept people, so no matter. I have always said that Sarkeesian has the right to voice her opinion, however; other people have the right to agree or disagree and deconstruct her arguments.

    Thankfully, here’s a good parody for this topic:



    Thunderf00t strikes again, although, I think he could’ve used more media examples and could’ve gotten into comedic violence to which men are usually the beast of burden to suffer it most of the time; often times at the hands of women.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamshodan View Post
    You know, I think neonwalrus was right when he said that he believed that Anita Sarkeesian's biggest problem is that she doesn't understand that we viewers can actually know for a fact that they shouldn't internalize the horrific acts they see on the screen.
    There are a few things I want to elaborate on, some of which is something of a continuation of my rant in the Transformers thread regarding media critics.

    I think one of my biggest laments about media critics in general is that they do not give audiences very much credit in terms of their intellectual capabilities. I find it insulting to my intelligence that someone in a condescending manner either directly or implicitly expresses that I lack the critical and analytical capacity to understand the media I’m consuming; that I will internalize the media I choose to view in any way shape or form, or that I just don’t know what “true art” or what “good” is when the reality is that I’m perfectly capable of figuring that out for myself.

    The epiphany I have arrived at, and why I’m neither critic nor fan boy is because; most fan boys/girls are unable to, or are willfully ignorant of the flaws in their favorite media due to intense bias; whereas most critics are unable, or willfully ignorant of the strengths (and sometimes weaknesses) in media due to intense bias. In all the art/entertainment I enjoy, while I’m aware of the strengths and flaws; I find that the less flawed, better written, narratively and thematically consistent something is; the more I enjoy it.

    I’ve been accused of “internalizing” my fandom; this is a fallacy since I have not, considering that everyone, including the person who has accused me; gets irritated and feels the need to speak up when someone makes a duplicitous negative comment, or writes an unfavorable review based on ignorance, about an anime we hold in high regard. This is not internalizing our fandom, this is calling out baloney, and I have seen some critics really shit the bed in their reviews to the point that I don’t get even get mad or upset, but laugh at how dumb the person sounds.

    Anyways, moving on, her other problem is that she, like many others in any “nerd” community, are incapable of seeing the big picture. I find it agitating that many reviewers and self-proclaimed critics talk about media as a part of our culture and being either influential of it, or vice versa, all the while looking at issues, in particular sexism as per the topic of this thread, from a one-sided perspective. These are people who want to consider themselves intelligent by viewing media critically, but fail to do so fully, resulting in their own ignorance. They deny, or even laugh at the concept of misandry pretending it doesn’t exist; this is not only mendacious and immature, but only worsens the overall problem. It’s intellectually dishonest to sit there and contemn certain anime as sexist towards women for various reasons all the while being blissfully ignorant that the pendulum of sexism swings the other way as well.

    “The trouble with loyalty to the cause; is that the cause, will always betray you.”

    -good quote; where did it come from?

    I have practiced logical consistency by naming and giving clear, concrete examples of what I consider sexist towards both men and women, proving that I am not looking at this from a one way perspective. I think it’s high time these “critics” should start doing the same; someone has to criticize the critics when they place their allegiance to a misguided ideology and make fallacious statements as a result.
    Last edited by neonwalrus; 07-04-2014 at 04:38 AM.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by neonwalrus View Post
    I have practiced logical consistency by naming and giving clear, concrete examples of what I consider sexist towards both men and women, proving that I am not looking at this from a one way perspective. I think it’s high time these “critics” should start doing the same; someone has to criticize the critics when they place their allegiance to a misguided ideology and make fallacious statements as a result.
    Could you please give us some examples? I already declared Duke Nukem to be an example I can come up with.

    Anyway, I would like to briefly mention the concept of Anita's newest video: Women as Background Decorations. I find it odd how it is not only a half-hour long, but it's also a part 1 video. Because background decorations are not much to talk about. I mean, they are background decorations after all. I mean, average pedestrians are there to be background decorations in the media and why should it matter what gender they are?


  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamshodan View Post
    Could you please give us some examples?
    With gaming I don’t have too many simply because I don’t play too many games, and with games I do play and know enough about, even the ones that have sexist elements to them, are not as a whole “sexist.”

    I find the idea in terms of the imagery and implications that on the GTA series that the character can sleep with a prostitute then murder her and steal her money somewhat sexist. I know, you can mug and murder men as well and that’s just as bad, but I wouldn’t call that sexism because women can also get the same treatment, and I get that the character is engaging in organized crime. I think for me, this is a situation where I’m a little biased in that an old friend loves the GTA series, then he tried the DOA fighting games and said he felt “dirty” for playing it.

    I’m sorry, but I do not consider the Dead or Alive Fighting Games sexist in the least; while the story for each game is silly, the backstories for each character fleshes them out as well written characters. Most of the male and female characters in the games are attractive and sensual, but, as I have said many times; this doesn’t equate to sexism. What’s more important is how effective from a gameplay perspective each character is, and the female characters are just as strong and even faster than their male counterparts. So when he plays a game where you can murder people, steal their money and engage in organized crime and feels no need to criticize it and is fine about it, then he plays a game that has well written characters that just happen to be sexy, then he feels “dirty.” Some people’s logic makes me wonder.

    On that note I have spoken about DOA: Beach Volleyball and that for the most part, I don’t think sexy equates to sexist. As a matter of fact, this game requires the players to understand the characters better in order to form teams with them. The only sketchy component is the candid picture feature, which, depending on how you look at it can be seen as creepy, or fine.

    It’s creepy if you look at it as the player being a peeping tom, not creepy if you look at it as a model shoot; and having played this game, I can fairly say that it feels like both depending on how and when pictures are taken.

    Most of my examples however are within anime since I watch more anime than play games. So, I’m repeating myself here, but, I will oblige.

    The first is Wanna be the Strongest in the World, which I have brought up a few times and I have stated that, contextually, the fan service is poor because it relishes in sadistically torturing it’s one-dimensional female lead in long, drawn out scenes in order to cause sexual stimulation to a male demographic. Aside from not being sexy, erotic or sensual, the torture porn scenes with Sakura’s groaning and screaming result in the only stimulation being annoyance. I want to make it abundantly clear; this is made that much worse in the sense that calling Sakura a one-dimensional character is being generous, she’s barely that much. The only character traits she has beyond the fact that she’s a pretty face, a set of breasts and a nice ass is that she’s ambitious and determined; that’s it. No fleshing out or development and her character traits only serve as a catalyst to get her into her sadomasochistic role.

    You know, I would’ve contended this series isn’t sexist had they developed Sakura’s character, had some good dialogue, developed and followed through with some great potential ideas and themes, got more creative with the fan service, basically; did what Queen’s Blade or Cat Planet Cuties did right (and I’ve already explained why these aren’t sexist). The OVA’s are far more salacious with mud wrestling and oil wrestling and I don’t see them sexist; I find them erotic, creative and playful; had the series even taken a direction like this, I could be more forgiving, however; it flushed all the potential it had down the toilet with lazy writing resulting in an anime that has scenes on it I consider sexist.

    Elfen Lied is another example; yes, I know, there’s a high male body count and that is pretty sexist to men, however; I strongly feel that Elfen Lied is more sexist towards women with the death scenes of the female characters being drawn out longer and having a mean spirited, sadistic sentiment to them. A lot of the male characters that get killed off are “sketches” while the female characters are more detailed; from their designs to their actual death scenes. One girl gets her limbs torn off, one has her head corkscrewed off with her body used as a human shield after, and there are always the giblets and innards. So while more male characters get killed off and that’s sexist and all, it’s more sexist to the female characters on this series since their deaths are more graphic and sadistic in order to stimulate the audience.

    One more for anime sexist to women; Shuffle; I’m sorry fans, but the female characters just seem like they have no agency on this series basing their entire existence around pleasing some guy. This is an example of what I wonder a bad harem anime; hate them all you want, but Maken Ki and Samurai Girls characters have agency and are competent adults despite their comedic juvenile behavior at times. On Shuffle, the girls are somewhat infantile; I still remember when the one girl spent an entire episode trying to learn how to fry an egg.

  8. #138
    neonwalrus's Avatar
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    Now for example of anime I consider sexist to men. First is Girls Bravo; I find that anytime Kirie beats on Yukinari, I’m offended since it’s played for laughs; it is not funny, anyone who’s been in an abusive relationship won’t think it’s funny; switch the genders it’s not funny. Add to that, Kirie is probably about two to three times the size of Yukinari, so the power dynamic is in her favor, so, switch the genders; not funny, so not funny to begin with.

    Then, some of my favorite shows that do this; both Kyousougiga and Cat Planet Cuties; these are two of my favorite anime and the only criticisms I have for them is that they seem to derive some of their humor from the girl beating on boy trope. I simply don’t find it funny and it causes me to marginally dislike the female character enacting the violence. I mean, I find it annoying when they have to have some girl beating on a boy to show how tough she is, portray him as a total crybaby wimp, or have a girl kick a guy in the balls, or go on a rampage after him when things happen that are beyond his control. And like I said, I still like these anime a lot, I think their absolutely smashing, but it’s a criticism I have for both of them.

    Now, I do have more examples, but it’s getting late and I have to up for work tomorrow, so I want to talk about context with some examples real quick.

    On Girls Bravo, while I hated when Kirie beat on Yukinari, I had a good laugh when she beat on Fukuyama; reason being that he brings a lot of it on himself, that he represents the entitled, egotistical, arrogant male. Basically, he shows no respect to people, acts entitled to them and as a result; gets what he deserves; and it’s damn funny when he does.

    On Shiki, the female characters death scenes are more graphic, but this is not sadistic or mean spirited; this is to create moral ambiguity in order to create sympathy from the viewer for the vampires. The female characters that do get killed off have a sufficient amount of fleshing out, and while the vampires are the “bad guys” one can’t help but feel sympathy for them on account of these scenes. Think about this; they left out the scene where female character Chizuko kills off male character Masao.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamshodan View Post
    I mean, they are background decorations after all. I mean, average pedestrians are there to be background decorations in the media and why should it matter what gender they are?
    No, it shouldn’t, and there are plenty of male background “characters” as well.

  9. #139
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    Thnderf00t looks to be a very busy person.


  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by neonwalrus View Post
    No, it shouldn’t, and there are plenty of male background “characters” as well.
    My point exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by neonwalrus View Post
    I don’t think sexy equates to sexist. As a matter of fact, this game requires the players to understand the characters better in order to form teams with them. The only sketchy component is the candid picture feature, which, depending on how you look at it can be seen as creepy, or fine.
    That's a point that I've been making many many times on this forum. And with your well-place explanations, I don't consider Queen's Blade or Dead Or Alive to be sexist anymore. Silly, pandering, offensive, but not sexist.

    Also, I just want to say that I knew Anita Sarkeesian would be back but I had no idea that Thunderf00t would be doing his thing again as well. I watched his latest Feminism VS. Facts video, and I rather liked it. But there's one thing about it that disappointed me: he at no point compared Anita Sarkeesian to Jack Thompson. Because he too believed that we can't tell reality from fantasy. By the way, his "If Men Acted Like Feminists" video now has a part 2:


    However, I now have the following to say, I'm glad that when one person on Youtube called sexism on Girls Bravo, he said it was sexist to both genders, not just women, meaning that he didn't fall into the same old double-standard trap. And there was one guy on Youtube who made the whole "make a woman sexy, you objectify her" argument, and said, "Men aren't immune to this either. When they are sexualized, they become a sex-fantasy for women." meaning that while he is guilty of the same $l&t shaming that I'm sick and tired of, he is nullifying the double-standard instead of re-enforcing it by saying, "men are guilty of this too".
    Last edited by iamshodan; 07-11-2014 at 03:01 PM.


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