@SM are we talking strickly american market here? I'm a little confused on the demographic arguement. Remember an anime doesn't just thrive on it's own episodes, it has to survive on markitablity as well. That's why the main demographic is going to be young boys and men, cause you can make marketable products out of those shows. Take this example: If you go to a con what's somthing you're bound to see: figurines and T-shirts. What'll be most of the merch? Shonen and Seinen anime. If that's not convicing, consider that Viz at one time had shoujo beat (shoujo version of jump) in america, it was canceled 2009 while I can still easily find Shonen Jump on a magazine rack (not that there's any near me seeing how bookstores are drying up as we speak).
My point is that demographics for other anime genres will be smaller because it's a higher risk to investors.
Now that's not to say these series get under appreciated I think these series are getting more light as of late. Shows like Welcome to the NHK or Hanasaku Iroha which I assure you would never have seen the light of day in america in the 90's.
Yes, actually let's talk about the 90's. I'm seeing more and more this was pretty much the roaring 20's of anime and I mean that in the bad way. Companies were grabing at anything they could get and most of the time that was a bad OVA (Garzey's Wing anyone ) which ultimately led to the anime bubble burst (at least that's one cause).
Anime is an industy and an economy just like any other major buisness. It is constantly changing and will have its ups and downs. Also like any other industyr it is evolving to fit its demographics and to do that it has to listen to the fans. Feel free to make your meta-[C] joke now
@FMP: No were talking about anime in general, and the content found in modern anime, we are not talking about the state of the US industry..well...not much anyway.
As for the rest of your post, what you say is true, Anime is an industry, and will follow the money, you make a very good point.
@Ninja: I would say I disagree IMPO its quality over quantity, over 1000 anime (TV, OVA, Movie) etc have come out since the 21st century started..... out of that 1000+ how many can we say are gems.
Not that the 20th century didn't have alot of gunk as well (it did) but the internet just makes the bad more promenant these days then anything did in the old days, lol.
But yeah, my whole point in my 1st post was is that even though anime may be constantly evolving from a visual standpoint. the content & the quality of the storytelling in many modern series seems to stagnate or decline overall.
Again I realize there are so many diffrent types of stories to tell....but theres is (supposedly) over a million ways to tell em, lol.
Personally, my like for anime has increased at the turn of the century.
Not saying old school anime weren't good. In fact, there were many gems.
But for me, there weren't as many as at present.
I agree with this statement my fandom has only grown in the past decade. I don't think fanservice in itself is the problem. SM mentioned this before why was there such a over excessive use of fanservice in HOTD. of course it's there to appeal to the prevy side of anime. It's all about how they go about doing the fanservice. It can either hurt the anime or add to making it better. For instance in animes like in kanokon,sekirei etc. While even if it is done badly, If it fits in harmony or is influential with the series then it adds to making it better. Like in good luck ninomiya-kun. I still think there are plenty of well written and complex animes. Like the last two animes I have finished durarara and angel beats! Both were will written and had in depth character development.
Why all the hate for fansubbers and illegal streams?
Fansubbers help the shows. They increase popularity and give the masses what they want when most companies don't. If it wasn't for fansubbers shows like One Piece wouldn't have anywhere near the popularity they do now.
And illegal streams are usually the only option. Like I said in my original post, region locking is pure nonsense and shouldn't exist. Not only that, but they usually run better too.
___________________________________________
Currently watching: Berserk, Fairy Tail, Bleach, Naruto Shippuden, One Piece, Ghost in the Shell, Yugioh: Zexal, Yugioh GX, Gun X Sword
As with American television, the sheer amount of series that come out each year adds up to there being a lot of crap. I think you can still find a few gems within each batch of new series, but a lot of it seems to be the same mediocre stuff repackaged in different ways. Which is exactly like American live action TV: how many medical dramas/police procedurals, etc. do you see come out each season? It's not confined to just the anime industry. It's the same with Hollywood movies and even the video game industry. The more mainstream anime gets, the more formulaic it'll get and the harder it'll be to see new and original series.
Why all the hate for fansubbers and illegal streams?
Fansubbers help the shows. They increase popularity and give the masses what they want when most companies don't. If it wasn't for fansubbers shows like One Piece wouldn't have anywhere near the popularity they do now.
And illegal streams are usually the only option. Like I said in my original post, region locking is pure nonsense and shouldn't exist. Not only that, but they usually run better too.
Well you got to understand unless your importing anime, its not making them any profit. Fansubs to me is stealing the anime creator's product and putting them online so other people can view it without having to put out the money for it. Fansubbers are also one of the reason s why the anime industry is doing bad in the first place. In my opionion, anime would have been popular without them. I hate when they say "oh anime wouldn't have bee popular without fansubs" really I beg to differ. To me anime would have been better off without those idiots that so called anime fans and people who illegal stream too. Its apprant how the japanese creators feel about fan subs, they have nothing good to say about it at all. Also the person that brought up legal streaming I like what anime news network has, you pay $5 and you all your licensed anime streamed and you can pick bewteen subs and dubs, now that is a system that I can deal with.
@erieser: Please don't start, now is not the time or the place. this is not a deabate about fansubs. But yeah, basically what 19rivers said
@madkid: Oh I know, as I said in my entry post, my view on modern media is just average at best. I fully well realize anime isnt the only medium suffering from an influx of mediocrity &/or garbage...but as someone who is primarilly an animation viewer..LA junk doesnt bother me as much, lol. Speaking of U.S. TV, I have been rather happy with the Influx of quality toons with that advent of the new Decade. Cartoon Network is really getting back in its game, and nick seems to be slowly picking up as well (with upcoming projects like the new TMNT. And of course enjoying the new shows on the HUB so far. But yeah U.S. Live action is also filled with stagnation and decline in qulaity. Oh well... theres always British Live action, lol.
but yeah, maybe since the NA american animation industry is slowly getting back on its feet...that will give Japan the incintive to try harder, lol.
@erieser: Please don't start, now is not the time or the place. this is not a deabate about fansubs. But yeah, basically what 19rivers said
@madkid: Oh I know, as I said in my entry post, my view on modern media is just average at best. I fully well realize anime isnt the only medium suffering from an influx of mediocrity &/or garbage...but as someone who is primarilly an animation viewer..LA junk doesnt bother me as much, lol. Speaking of U.S. TV, I have been rather happy with the Influx of quality toons with that advent of the new Decade. Cartoon Network is really getting back in its game, and nick seems to be slowly picking up as well (with upcoming projects like the new TMNT. And of course enjoying the new shows on the HUB so far. But yeah U.S. Live action is also filled with stagnation and decline in qulaity. Oh well... theres always British Live action, lol.
but yeah, maybe since the NA american animation industry is slowly getting back on its feet...that will give Japan the incintive to try harder, lol.
Yeah I agree but I think cartoon network will never get back on its feet unless they bring the shows back from 2000-2005 and toonmai too because the shows on there now is utter crap. Nicktoons I agree with but I can't wait for Avatar the legend of korra to air on there I loved the original show and I hope this one is even better.
@SM
are we talking strickly american market here? I'm a little confused on the demographic arguement. Remember an anime doesn't just thrive on it's own episodes, it has to survive on markitablity as well. That's why the main demographic is going to be young boys and men, cause you can make marketable products out of those shows. Take this example: If you go to a con what's somthing you're bound to see: figurines and T-shirts. What'll be most of the merch? Shonen and Seinen anime. If that's not convicing, consider that Viz at one time had shoujo beat (shoujo version of jump) in america, it was canceled 2009 while I can still easily find Shonen Jump on a magazine rack (not that there's any near me seeing how bookstores are drying up as we speak).
) which ultimately led to the anime bubble burst (at least that's one cause).
My point is that demographics for other anime genres will be smaller because it's a higher risk to investors.
Now that's not to say these series get under appreciated I think these series are getting more light as of late. Shows like Welcome to the NHK or Hanasaku Iroha which I assure you would never have seen the light of day in america in the 90's.
Yes, actually let's talk about the 90's. I'm seeing more and more this was pretty much the roaring 20's of anime and I mean that in the bad way. Companies were grabing at anything they could get and most of the time that was a bad OVA (Garzey's Wing anyone
Anime is an industy and an economy just like any other major buisness. It is constantly changing and will have its ups and downs. Also like any other industyr it is evolving to fit its demographics and to do that it has to listen to the fans. Feel free to make your meta-[C] joke now
Personally, my like for anime has increased at the turn of the century.
Not saying old school anime weren't good. In fact, there were many gems.
But for me, there weren't as many as at present.
@FMP: No were talking about anime in general, and the content found in modern anime, we are not talking about the state of the US industry..well...not much anyway.
As for the rest of your post, what you say is true, Anime is an industry, and will follow the money, you make a very good point.
@Ninja: I would say I disagree IMPO its quality over quantity, over 1000 anime (TV, OVA, Movie) etc have come out since the 21st century started..... out of that 1000+ how many can we say are gems.
Not that the 20th century didn't have alot of gunk as well (it did) but the internet just makes the bad more promenant these days then anything did in the old days, lol.
But yeah, my whole point in my 1st post was is that even though anime may be constantly evolving from a visual standpoint. the content & the quality of the storytelling in many modern series seems to stagnate or decline overall.
Again I realize there are so many diffrent types of stories to tell....but theres is (supposedly) over a million ways to tell em, lol.
Isn't It Great To Different, Isn't It Great To Be Who You Are!? Once You Learn To Accept Yourself, You'll Become A Shining Star.
I was merely making a generalization. Perhaps they will be remembered as classics of the loli underwear and *insert whatever DC is* genres.
Not saying old school anime weren't good. In fact, there were many gems.
But for me, there weren't as many as at present.
I agree with this statement my fandom has only grown in the past decade. I don't think fanservice in itself is the problem. SM mentioned this before why was there such a over excessive use of fanservice in HOTD. of course it's there to appeal to the prevy side of anime. It's all about how they go about doing the fanservice. It can either hurt the anime or add to making it better. For instance in animes like in kanokon,sekirei etc. While even if it is done badly, If it fits in harmony or is influential with the series then it adds to making it better. Like in good luck ninomiya-kun. I still think there are plenty of well written and complex animes. Like the last two animes I have finished durarara and angel beats! Both were will written and had in depth character development.
AWWW! I've never seen lelouch look so adorably moe! Or suzaku for that matter! XD
Why all the hate for fansubbers and illegal streams?
Fansubbers help the shows. They increase popularity and give the masses what they want when most companies don't. If it wasn't for fansubbers shows like One Piece wouldn't have anywhere near the popularity they do now.
And illegal streams are usually the only option. Like I said in my original post, region locking is pure nonsense and shouldn't exist. Not only that, but they usually run better too.
Currently watching: Berserk, Fairy Tail, Bleach, Naruto Shippuden, One Piece, Ghost in the Shell, Yugioh: Zexal, Yugioh GX, Gun X Sword
Currently playing: Final Fantasy IX
As with American television, the sheer amount of series that come out each year adds up to there being a lot of crap. I think you can still find a few gems within each batch of new series, but a lot of it seems to be the same mediocre stuff repackaged in different ways. Which is exactly like American live action TV: how many medical dramas/police procedurals, etc. do you see come out each season? It's not confined to just the anime industry. It's the same with Hollywood movies and even the video game industry. The more mainstream anime gets, the more formulaic it'll get and the harder it'll be to see new and original series.
Fansubbers help the shows. They increase popularity and give the masses what they want when most companies don't. If it wasn't for fansubbers shows like One Piece wouldn't have anywhere near the popularity they do now.
And illegal streams are usually the only option. Like I said in my original post, region locking is pure nonsense and shouldn't exist. Not only that, but they usually run better too.
Well you got to understand unless your importing anime, its not making them any profit. Fansubs to me is stealing the anime creator's product and putting them online so other people can view it without having to put out the money for it. Fansubbers are also one of the reason s why the anime industry is doing bad in the first place. In my opionion, anime would have been popular without them. I hate when they say "oh anime wouldn't have bee popular without fansubs" really I beg to differ. To me anime would have been better off without those idiots that so called anime fans and people who illegal stream too. Its apprant how the japanese creators feel about fan subs, they have nothing good to say about it at all. Also the person that brought up legal streaming I like what anime news network has, you pay $5 and you all your licensed anime streamed and you can pick bewteen subs and dubs, now that is a system that I can deal with.
@erieser: Please don't start, now is not the time or the place. this is not a deabate about fansubs. But yeah, basically what 19rivers said
@madkid: Oh I know, as I said in my entry post, my view on modern media is just average at best. I fully well realize anime isnt the only medium suffering from an influx of mediocrity &/or garbage...but as someone who is primarilly an animation viewer..LA junk doesnt bother me as much, lol. Speaking of U.S. TV, I have been rather happy with the Influx of quality toons with that advent of the new Decade. Cartoon Network is really getting back in its game, and nick seems to be slowly picking up as well (with upcoming projects like the new TMNT. And of course enjoying the new shows on the HUB so far. But yeah U.S. Live action is also filled with stagnation and decline in qulaity. Oh well... theres always British Live action, lol.
but yeah, maybe since the NA american animation industry is slowly getting back on its feet...that will give Japan the incintive to try harder, lol.
Isn't It Great To Different, Isn't It Great To Be Who You Are!? Once You Learn To Accept Yourself, You'll Become A Shining Star.
@madkid: Oh I know, as I said in my entry post, my view on modern media is just average at best. I fully well realize anime isnt the only medium suffering from an influx of mediocrity &/or garbage...but as someone who is primarilly an animation viewer..LA junk doesnt bother me as much, lol. Speaking of U.S. TV, I have been rather happy with the Influx of quality toons with that advent of the new Decade. Cartoon Network is really getting back in its game, and nick seems to be slowly picking up as well (with upcoming projects like the new TMNT. And of course enjoying the new shows on the HUB so far. But yeah U.S. Live action is also filled with stagnation and decline in qulaity. Oh well... theres always British Live action, lol.
but yeah, maybe since the NA american animation industry is slowly getting back on its feet...that will give Japan the incintive to try harder, lol.
Yeah I agree but I think cartoon network will never get back on its feet unless they bring the shows back from 2000-2005 and toonmai too because the shows on there now is utter crap. Nicktoons I agree with but I can't wait for Avatar the legend of korra to air on there I loved the original show and I hope this one is even better.