Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
Sora wrote:
Then you don't understand why. MP3000 gave a pretty damn good summary of what's happening. Sentai dodged a huge bullet in the past, and which Funi was inconveniently involved in. Funi is essentially whining that Sentai found a loophole, and are grubbing at Sentai's feet for cash. My disrespect for Funi goes entirely off topic besides this silly lawsuit. People aren't using this as a start to hate, but a practical finish. I heard little of anyone say anything about their distaste on titles, besides of last purchases to be made. This case is entirely about Funi wanting to get their hands on cold, greedy, and petty cash.
Funi may not be "Vile" here, but there are definitely far from respectable in this situation
I might not understand legal talk, but I DO understand when someone is jumping the gun and making rationalizations, which is sadly what a lot of people (not specifically this forum alone) are doing.
And if Sentai did dodge that bullet, and it was FUNi that got hit with it? I'd say it's well within FUNi's rights to pursue the cash that should have been ADV's to pay, IF that is what's really happened here. Separating into a bunch of different smaller companies to dodge debt may be perfectly legal but that doesn't make it right, not in my eyes.
And of course FUNi wants cash. They're a business. That's what businesses DO. And it's not a practical finish when this has nothing to do with why they dislike FUNi in the first place.
So again - my standpoint is that, until we know what's really going on here, it looks like ADV dodged debt and is getting called out for it. IF that is what happened, THEN they deserve to be caught. BUT...IF it is no more than FUNi trying to get money that they don't deserve, as some of you say, then I will side against FUNi. I'm trying to see who's really in the right here. But from where I sit right now, it looks like FUNi's not doing anything wrong yet, and a lot of people are over-judging what tiny little bit of info we have so far.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
@Gyt Kaliba, no matter who wins, we anime fans in R1 will lose. Someone is going to lose money (The legal process causes you to lose money on those lawyers so easily.), and we'll see less titles from FUNi and or Sentai as a result. This is not what R1 needs right now.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
I know that. Believe me, I didn't want to see this happen either. It's terrible that this couldn't be settled out of court somehow, and there's no lying, we as a fandom are off to a HORRIBLE start for this year.
But the fact remains, if FUNi is owed that money, they're within their rights to pursue it. Trying to please the fandom can only go so far for a successful business, it's cold but true.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
$8 million might be a petty amount to Wal-Mart or McDonalds, but Funi isn't nearly big enough to just brush off that much money. I'm not going to pretend I understand anything that's going on, but obviously someone is owed a lot of money.
Everyone's so worried about the end of R1 anime, but I'm more optimistic. If there's demand and money to be made, someone will try to make that money by giving us the supply we want. In some way, shape or form, anime will always exist over here. With the death of every company, there's an opening for a new one.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
The statute of limitations on debt in Texas is four years from the last payment on that debt, in January 2008 the titles disappeared from ADV's site thus signaling the end of the the deal and we get the Funi/Sojitz deal in July, that implies that this was a near-last minute effort. They bring this lawsuit less than two months to eight months before they can't. Why exactly wait so long, if they don't have an exact amount, just an estimate of what it will cost - court, lawyer and everything else. By the time this actually goes to trial, the debt won't be an issue because the statute of limitations runs out before then. The fact they are asking for a jury in the trial means they are not confident in what they have already and Funimation, who is pretty charitable and good in Texas, will have an easy time persuading a jury to use feelings instead of the law like a judge would.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
Gyt Kaliba wrote:
That's the kind of info we're waiting to hopefully find out, yeah. For all we know right now, FUNi has been trying to settle it out of court for those few years and it just hasn't worked out. Or maybe something prevented them from being able to pursue it until now. We just don't know all the details to start taking sides yet, and I wish more people would realize that.
When and IF those details come to light, if FUNi turns out to be in the wrong, then you can bet I'll call them out on it. I may love FUNi but they do make mistakes that I don't approve of. I'm still annoyed with how they handled the situation with the former Trigun actors.
Note: This was in reply to Dachou, it seems some other posts were done while I was typing away at it. ^_^;
You want info?
I'm going to make this brief,short & understandable. (Somewhat)
Funimation has a ZERO case against Section23,Sentai or any of its enitities. That's because they're all connected to an investment holding group "SCION/SX23" which is no way tied to ADV Films. Thus, there's an 80% chance the suit against them will be dismissed & only a 5% chance that further hearings will lead to a jury.
BUT,an addition to ADV still being in existance. ALL connections,legal troubles & Sojitz/ARM debt is tied down to the investment group "AEsir Holdings"which carries ADV Films. So AEsir is the one carrying the tab & the suit will go foward with ADV.
Section23/Sentai will NOT be affected at all. AD Vision,Inc made sure these companies were clean of the legal mess of ADV Films & Sojitz.
AND
On ADV's website, the 2009 "Asset Transaction" headline is STILL there.
This confirms everything I said, and clears AD Vision, Inc. Assuring that the lawsuit against them & their LLCs will be dropped.
Funi IS doing this for cold money, and IS doing this "Without Merit, or Basis" as Sentai has said in response. It doesn't matter if it's business, it's fact of just show crude, and unrespectable Funi is making themselves look here, Sentai knows this, and that this case is just a greedy snafu.
In a worse-case scenario as Mp3000 has stated, is that Funi will use the jury they've requested to get through the case, instead of a fair judging case of law. I don't want to think Funi would go THAT low, but the fact that they even asked for one is easy enough to even slightly support the claim.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
I'd say it's way to early to say anything about this, especially making such harsh judgements. There just isn't info available to say one way or the other. Also, most people seem to only read it as Funi vs Section 23, but there are 9 other entities involved as well. There could be a case of specific ones being found culpable while others not, or none at all. Also two things should be taken into account, firstly companies do this sort of thing a lot, with settlements eventually being hammered out all the time. Also many companies (and I would think that licensing companies would apply here especially since they deal with contracts so much) buy litigation insurance in case things like this happen. I could be wrong, but I surely don't see it as "whoever looses is going to be gone" by a long shot.
___________________________________________
Sponges grow in the ocean. That just kills me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn’t happen.- Steven Wright
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
What's with all the baxhing of FUNimation for having ecchi/fanservice titles? You guys act like Sentai doesn't.
Here are of few from Senta Filmworks/Section 23 fanservice
Demon King Daimao He Is My Master High School of the Dead Indian Summer Kampfer Mahoromatic: Automatic Maiden MM! Nyan Koi! Samurai Girls Samurai Harem To Love Ru Motto To Love Ru
May be a few more but the point is FUNimation is the only ones who grab ecchi stuff and of late that's all that has been coming out of Japan as of late.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
Both are multi-genre varied. Though bias in preferred company does play a role in the double standard.
I'll admit that I dislike Sentai's rather boneheaded policy [IMO] to release most of its licenses sub-only....but I still acknowledge that it does acquire all kinds.
Regarding the topic, I have to agree with Batou. Some are jumping the sharks with the finger pointing and accusations of ulterior motives.
Let's wait till we actually get a full look at the situation before the conspiracy theories start.
Re: Funimation Sues A.D. Vision, Sentai, Others for US$8 Million
SS5ant wrote:
What's with all the baxhing of FUNimation for having ecchi/fanservice titles? You guys act like Sentai doesn't.
May be a few more but the point is FUNimation is the only ones who grab ecchi stuff and of late that's all that has been coming out of Japan as of late.
They're bashing because many find these shows to have more ecchi and fanservice than story content. There are good fanservice shows out there that get it right (Sekirei did. Don't let the FUNi trailers fool you (They always fool people when it comes to fanservice so the show sells.), this doesn't have all that much fanservice, and focuses on the action and story more.), and then there are ones that get it wrong (Demon King Daimao), and don't trun out good.
Also truth right there, that's mainly what's coming out of Japan, more moe and ecchi stuff that appeals to the hardcore Japanese otaku. The industry there years ago started to have problems, so they started to take less risks. They'll come out with stuff they know will most likely sell over stuff that might not. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-05-04/industry-group-head-says-anime-is-a-bubble-that-burst
Domestic sales matter more there these days. They make shows for non-Japanese people, and it bombs in Japan, and you have problems. Plus the money made from non-domestic sales is small. Listen to 15:00-18:00 even, our sales don't amount to much, especially when it's priced as a S.A.V.E. edition. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2012-01-13
Funi may not be "Vile" here, but there are definitely far from respectable in this situation
I might not understand legal talk, but I DO understand when someone is jumping the gun and making rationalizations, which is sadly what a lot of people (not specifically this forum alone) are doing.
And if Sentai did dodge that bullet, and it was FUNi that got hit with it? I'd say it's well within FUNi's rights to pursue the cash that should have been ADV's to pay, IF that is what's really happened here. Separating into a bunch of different smaller companies to dodge debt may be perfectly legal but that doesn't make it right, not in my eyes.
And of course FUNi wants cash. They're a business. That's what businesses DO. And it's not a practical finish when this has nothing to do with why they dislike FUNi in the first place.
So again - my standpoint is that, until we know what's really going on here, it looks like ADV dodged debt and is getting called out for it. IF that is what happened, THEN they deserve to be caught. BUT...IF it is no more than FUNi trying to get money that they don't deserve, as some of you say, then I will side against FUNi. I'm trying to see who's really in the right here. But from where I sit right now, it looks like FUNi's not doing anything wrong yet, and a lot of people are over-judging what tiny little bit of info we have so far.
I"s: Reaching for a Dream - The Fandom Writer - My Collection
Want your work listed on 'Fandom Writer'? Let me know.
"There are two kinds of folks who sit around thinking about how to kill people. Psychopaths, and mystery writers. I'm the kind that pays better."
@Gyt Kaliba, no matter who wins, we anime fans in R1 will lose. Someone is going to lose money (The legal process causes you to lose money on those lawyers so easily.), and we'll see less titles from FUNi and or Sentai as a result. This is not what R1 needs right now.
I'm known by a different username on every forum I'm on.
PSN: Videogameaddict2 | MAL | Anime-Planet | Twitter
I know that. Believe me, I didn't want to see this happen either. It's terrible that this couldn't be settled out of court somehow, and there's no lying, we as a fandom are off to a HORRIBLE start for this year.
But the fact remains, if FUNi is owed that money, they're within their rights to pursue it. Trying to please the fandom can only go so far for a successful business, it's cold but true.
I"s: Reaching for a Dream - The Fandom Writer - My Collection
Want your work listed on 'Fandom Writer'? Let me know.
"There are two kinds of folks who sit around thinking about how to kill people. Psychopaths, and mystery writers. I'm the kind that pays better."
$8 million might be a petty amount to Wal-Mart or McDonalds, but Funi isn't nearly big enough to just brush off that much money. I'm not going to pretend I understand anything that's going on, but obviously someone is owed a lot of money.
Everyone's so worried about the end of R1 anime, but I'm more optimistic. If there's demand and money to be made, someone will try to make that money by giving us the supply we want. In some way, shape or form, anime will always exist over here. With the death of every company, there's an opening for a new one.
The statute of limitations on debt in Texas is four years from the last payment on that debt, in January 2008 the titles disappeared from ADV's site thus signaling the end of the the deal and we get the Funi/Sojitz deal in July, that implies that this was a near-last minute effort. They bring this lawsuit less than two months to eight months before they can't. Why exactly wait so long, if they don't have an exact amount, just an estimate of what it will cost - court, lawyer and everything else. By the time this actually goes to trial, the debt won't be an issue because the statute of limitations runs out before then. The fact they are asking for a jury in the trial means they are not confident in what they have already and Funimation, who is pretty charitable and good in Texas, will have an easy time persuading a jury to use feelings instead of the law like a judge would.
my dvdaf (anime, criterions, other) | MyAnimeList | Anime-Planet
When and IF those details come to light, if FUNi turns out to be in the wrong, then you can bet I'll call them out on it. I may love FUNi but they do make mistakes that I don't approve of. I'm still annoyed with how they handled the situation with the former Trigun actors.
Note: This was in reply to Dachou, it seems some other posts were done while I was typing away at it. ^_^;
You want info?
I'm going to make this brief,short & understandable. (Somewhat)
Funimation has a ZERO case against Section23,Sentai or any of its enitities. That's because they're all connected to an investment holding group "SCION/SX23" which is no way tied to ADV Films. Thus, there's an 80% chance the suit against them will be dismissed & only a 5% chance that further hearings will lead to a jury.
BUT,an addition to ADV still being in existance. ALL connections,legal troubles & Sojitz/ARM debt is tied down to the investment group "AEsir Holdings"which carries ADV Films. So AEsir is the one carrying the tab & the suit will go foward with ADV.
Section23/Sentai will NOT be affected at all. AD Vision,Inc made sure these companies were clean of the legal mess of ADV Films & Sojitz.
AND
On ADV's website, the 2009 "Asset Transaction" headline is STILL there.
http://www.advfilms.com
This confirms everything I said, and clears AD Vision, Inc. Assuring that the lawsuit against them & their LLCs will be dropped.
Funi IS doing this for cold money, and IS doing this "Without Merit, or Basis" as Sentai has said in response. It doesn't matter if it's business, it's fact of just show crude, and unrespectable Funi is making themselves look here, Sentai knows this, and that this case is just a greedy snafu.
Sentai essentially says to Funi
In a worse-case scenario as Mp3000 has stated, is that Funi will use the jury they've requested to get through the case, instead of a fair judging case of law. I don't want to think Funi would go THAT low, but the fact that they even asked for one is easy enough to even slightly support the claim.
I'd say it's way to early to say anything about this, especially making such harsh judgements. There just isn't info available to say one way or the other. Also, most people seem to only read it as Funi vs Section 23, but there are 9 other entities involved as well. There could be a case of specific ones being found culpable while others not, or none at all. Also two things should be taken into account, firstly companies do this sort of thing a lot, with settlements eventually being hammered out all the time. Also many companies (and I would think that licensing companies would apply here especially since they deal with contracts so much) buy litigation insurance in case things like this happen. I could be wrong, but I surely don't see it as "whoever looses is going to be gone" by a long shot.
Sponges grow in the ocean. That just kills me. I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be if that didn’t happen.- Steven Wright
What's with all the baxhing of FUNimation for having ecchi/fanservice titles? You guys act like Sentai doesn't.
Here are of few from Senta Filmworks/Section 23 fanservice
Demon King Daimao
He Is My Master
High School of the Dead
Indian Summer
Kampfer
Mahoromatic: Automatic Maiden
MM!
Nyan Koi!
Samurai Girls
Samurai Harem
To Love Ru
Motto To Love Ru
May be a few more but the point is FUNimation is the only ones who grab ecchi stuff and of late that's all that has been coming out of Japan as of late.
Both are multi-genre varied. Though bias in preferred company does play a role in the double standard.
I'll admit that I dislike Sentai's rather boneheaded policy [IMO] to release most of its licenses sub-only....but I still acknowledge that it does acquire all kinds.
Regarding the topic, I have to agree with Batou. Some are jumping the sharks with the finger pointing and accusations of ulterior motives.
Let's wait till we actually get a full look at the situation before the conspiracy theories start.
Also truth right there, that's mainly what's coming out of Japan, more moe and ecchi stuff that appeals to the hardcore Japanese otaku. The industry there years ago started to have problems, so they started to take less risks. They'll come out with stuff they know will most likely sell over stuff that might not.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-05-04/industry-group-head-says-anime-is-a-bubble-that-burst
Domestic sales matter more there these days. They make shows for non-Japanese people, and it bombs in Japan, and you have problems. Plus the money made from non-domestic sales is small. Listen to 15:00-18:00 even, our sales don't amount to much, especially when it's priced as a S.A.V.E. edition.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/anncast/2012-01-13
I'm known by a different username on every forum I'm on.
PSN: Videogameaddict2 | MAL | Anime-Planet | Twitter